Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: raise None Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 10:39:21 +1100 Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <56847239$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684842a$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684aa1a$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56854b49$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <85r3i2s776.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <85io3eryfw.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de TCFXbBVWjkX6N1r+Ei/PrgAhiQC5Jg2qMDrfAzIkyJ9g== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'enabling': 0.05; 'lines,': 0.05; 'feature.': 0.07; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.09; 'exception,': 0.09; 'imported': 0.09; 'imported.': 0.09; 'subject:None': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'jan': 0.11; 'exception': 0.13; '*less*': 0.16; '2016': 0.16; 'advocating': 0.16; 'barrier': 0.16; 'else"': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'somewhere.': 0.16; 'sys.path': 0.16; 'tracebacks': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.16; 'debugging': 0.18; 'library': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'issue.': 0.20; 'am,': 0.23; 'code,': 0.23; 'code.': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'installed': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'helpful': 0.27; 'error': 0.27; 'fri,': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'boundary': 0.29; 'sure,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'normally': 0.30; "i'd": 0.31; 'maybe': 0.33; 'raised': 0.33; 'traceback': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'desirable': 0.35; 'direction': 0.35; 'possible,': 0.35; 'tasks': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'difference': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'more': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'between': 0.65; 'actually,': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'start.': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'choose.': 0.91; 'difficult,': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DAeWHUKUQg0T2Wm0iZkgQ6a7CCtU4VhJpHRY2xAd7XQ=; b=R0O7Am8npwSeZQzllnOvWeCRky9WmeG+sZRuXUuE38bW7vWxjfgsb3oWvKdD/DMf/8 WQUTssV/u1g5UXFzEGEzNm5tecsg/vMWpFnH0fJ7u+0W8Bik5+WGzOKxRHuLfIFSXRFk 7DE0FkG7RbjkmFFfRAvsyFtGHPjaq4K166kNhGQ5GBPr7taEhB81vloLHaIbDxNPGQFv pDb9MKhh8MDUPL7uZU1PhXFz4s4P8GZXroxMudh3ReJ4vZ0eMK/lVWoUTsKrR96rorhY XUJXEtQSA3ObBs2TsMhXrJhr0xAoQs3ofm4gRAvLPXz0gDlfF2GjNRUXFYQKPApI9IjR dokQ== X-Received: by 10.107.47.162 with SMTP id v34mr20808654iov.19.1451605162025; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:39:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <85io3eryfw.fsf@benfinney.id.au> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:101087 On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Ben Finney wr= ote: > Chris Angelico writes: > >> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Ben Finney = wrote: >> > Given how very often such decisions make my debugging tasks >> > needlessly difficult, I'm not seeing how that's a desirable feature. >> >> What Steven's actually advocating is removing a difference between >> Python code and native code. > > Sure, but his proposal is to move in the direction of *less* debugging > information. > > If I could have the traceback continue into the C code and tell me the > line of C code that raised the exception, *that's* what I'd choose. > > The debugging information barrier of the C=E2=80=93Python boundary is a > practical limitation, not a desirable one. I think those barriers should > be as few as possible, and don't agree with enabling more of them. Hmm, maybe. Personally, I wouldn't find exception tracebacks any more helpful for including a bunch of C code lines, but maybe that should be something for tooling. Actually, that's a possibility. If your traceback automatically highlights the last line that isn't imported from sys.path, that might cover the issue. Normally the error will be in your code, not some library you imported. Everything that you got from "someone else" is likely to be installed into sys.path somewhere. Might not be perfect, but it'd be a start. ChrisA