Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Mark Lawrence Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: raise None Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 23:36:18 +0000 Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <56847239$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684842a$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684aa1a$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56854b49$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <85r3i2s776.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <85io3eryfw.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de frDdLUQpxpqB1lm+Nk2ViwkRhJxTlNqTv1gPTEcwyWYA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'enabling': 0.05; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.05; 'feature.': 0.07; 'exception,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:None': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'jan': 0.11; '*less*': 0.16; '2016': 0.16; 'advocating': 0.16; 'barrier': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'debugging': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; '>>>': 0.20; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'code.': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'all.': 0.24; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'fri,': 0.27; 'boundary': 0.29; 'sure,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; "i'd": 0.31; 'non': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; 'raised': 0.33; 'traceback': 0.33; 'this?': 0.34; 'could': 0.35; 'desirable': 0.35; 'direction': 0.35; 'possible,': 0.35; 'tasks': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'suggestion': 0.37; 'difference': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'more': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'between': 0.65; 'dumb': 0.84; 'pythonistas,': 0.84; 'choose.': 0.91; 'difficult,': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip13.worldwideprinting.adsl.gxn.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 In-Reply-To: <85io3eryfw.fsf@benfinney.id.au> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:101086 On 31/12/2015 23:27, Ben Finney wrote: > Chris Angelico writes: > >> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote: >>> Given how very often such decisions make my debugging tasks >>> needlessly difficult, I'm not seeing how that's a desirable feature. >> >> What Steven's actually advocating is removing a difference between >> Python code and native code. > > Sure, but his proposal is to move in the direction of *less* debugging > information. > > If I could have the traceback continue into the C code and tell me the > line of C code that raised the exception, *that's* what I'd choose. > > The debugging information barrier of the C–Python boundary is a > practical limitation, not a desirable one. I think those barriers should > be as few as possible, and don't agree with enabling more of them. > Where did C code enter into this? What do the non C implementations do? All I see is a dumb original suggestion that should be shot down in flames as I see no merit in it at all. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence