Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.franciliens.net!news.muarf.org!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <wrw@mac.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.050
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.90; '*S*': 0.00; 'context': 0.07; 'formatting': 0.09; 'spaces': 0.09; 'subject:design': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; '12:57': 0.16; '1:08': 0.16; 'fancy': 0.16; 'layering': 0.16; 'received:mac.com': 0.16; 'subject:Language': 0.16; 'sure.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'received:10.0.1': 0.19; 'shape': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'verbal': 0.19; 'meant': 0.20; 'written': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'code,': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**1': 0.23; 'case.': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'equivalent': 0.26; 'certain': 0.27; 'skip:" 20': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'work.': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'too.': 0.31; '>>>>': 0.31; 'indentation': 0.31; 'perl': 0.31; 'piece': 0.31; 'sep': 0.31; 'styles': 0.31; 'though.': 0.31; 'text': 0.33; "can't": 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'words,': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'received:10.0': 0.36; 'so,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'received:10': 0.37; 'received:17': 0.38; 'either': 0.39; 'break': 0.61; 'lower': 0.61; 'deliver': 0.61; 'new': 0.61; 'information,': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'further': 0.61; 'information': 0.63; 'different': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'beautiful': 0.68; 'frequently': 0.68; 'results': 0.69; 'upper': 0.74; 'greek': 0.84; 'header:In-reply-to:1': 0.84; 'nowhere,': 0.84; 'significance': 0.84; 'speech': 0.84; '2013,': 0.91; 'quotation': 0.93; '2013': 0.98
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-09-18_07:2013-09-18,2013-09-18,1970-01-01 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1309180082
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\))
Subject: Re: Language design
From: William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com>
In-reply-to: <CAPTjJmqGx3L0yT5Tpb+9UZVU6RK67tCR-rHt342m_Abdsi9RcA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:58:14 -0400
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
References: <522eb795$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <CAPTjJmrya1x3MqN2n0=KFGV9xhLWTCyaHFaNTgYNxJuA3qaUjw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.342.1379055854.5461.python-list@python.org> <5232e562$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <CAPTjJmr9GmY06Px0uuQAvcT=bFd4hkj5GZNkup8+7FMQ5Q4j9g@mail.gmail.com> <l0vp7a$414$1@ger.gmane.org> <mailman.366.1379116659.5461.python-list@python.org> <b9tt9sF14v8U1@mid.individual.net> <mailman.122.1379516555.18130.python-list@python.org> <b9tu09F14v8U2@mid.individual.net> <CAPTjJmqGx3L0yT5Tpb+9UZVU6RK67tCR-rHt342m_Abdsi9RcA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508)
Cc: python-list@python.org, William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.127.1379523504.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 39
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1379523504 news.xs4all.nl 15962 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42858
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:54389

On Sep 18, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 1:08 AM, Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> =
wrote:
>> On 2013-09-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:57 AM, Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> =
wrote:
>>>> There's lots of poetry with significant indentation, though.
>>>> Imbuing the shape of the text on the page with significance is a
>>>> thing.
>>>=20
>>> And you can do that with C code, too. Doesn't mean that
>>> indentation is important to C; it means that you're layering
>>> different types of information into a single piece of work.
>>> It's like Perl code drawn in the shape of a camel - a beautiful
>>> hack.
>>=20
>> I just meant you can't condense whitespace in a poem and retain
>> all its meaning. It will break certain kinds of quotation styles
>> in publications, as well.
>=20
> Sure. I'm still trying to work out if it's possible to deliver a
> verbal speech with fancy information in its written version... English
> is a fun language to tinker with!
>=20
> ChrisA
> --=20
>=20

Just to add a data point on the importance of formatting in language.  =
New Testament Greek is/was written with no punctuation, no spaces =
between words, and no distinction between upper and lower case.  This =
frequently results in the Greek equivalent of the follow English:  =
"iamnowhereiameverywhere"  which can be "translated" as either "I am now =
here, I am everywhere."  _or_ "I am nowhere, I am everywhere."  In other =
words, two very different meanings.  So, without context or further =
information, the intent of the original writer can't be inferred.

-Bill=