Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!81.171.88.16.MISMATCH!hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!xlned.com!feeder5.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'sys': 0.07; 'attributes': 0.09; 'data:': 0.09; 'subject:skip:a 10': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'windows': 0.15; "(it's": 0.16; 'argument,': 0.16; 'attribute,': 0.16; 'attributes).': 0.16; 'attributes,': 0.16; 'expecting': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; "function's": 0.16; 'hierarchy.': 0.16; 'multiplied': 0.16; 'object()': 0.16; 'roy': 0.16; 'sentinel': 0.16; 'simpler,': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'subject:simple': 0.16; 'subject:type': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '>>>': 0.22; 'import': 0.22; 'aug': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'fairly': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'pass': 0.26; '(for': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'basic': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'times': 0.62; 'smith': 0.68; 'default': 0.69; 'subjectcharset:utf-8': 0.72; 'bag': 0.74; '3.4': 0.84; 'do:': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=Izna/NTzYyENWxVXyBrDKRnQ3fqhhMtRxk8JEjmgBbA=; b=ECoVtQyYtwXdJYArUhx0KXxlxtKoHRB2C6uIH21KX2hIYefC2Uk8EKfyeTMi/PbOVd Fa7PwCRD1lE2TDylnp/+bg8yP7Gw2Nho5tuSEV3kRn2Dmy+UUFKpDnXL4Wx6IQycoJ1L It3RT6556L1CtMz6hLi133QuXfvKehmlzU+8wWBfX+POmbZf+pTNLN7yGjvs5feacD0z tqTWrepPqC+GiU9JxNfyJJNJxsev9S/8hRbXhCmFgjThi2j9l3piNdkrgKXLC1QdTtVe hOpmLCMG2CVnLinLYmYDoQ/8p8D1FEvtsE+I6jI7fJPc8/VNmlhtuhXmud7HNRt/YX6M V21w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.96.65 with SMTP id cf1mr22775827icc.26.1407070597515; Sun, 03 Aug 2014 05:56:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7ef67ccc-3fc3-47dd-b858-09ef3b57a497@googlegroups.com> <87r40zmkhr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53dd0717$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <857g2qd5oc.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 22:56:37 +1000 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Correct_type_for_a_simple_=E2=80=9Cbag_of_attributes?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D_namespace_object?= From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1407070605 news.xs4all.nl 2938 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53088 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 4839 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1488290584 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:75594 On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Roy Smith wrote: > I usually just do: > > class Data: > pass > my_obj = Data() > > That's all you really need. It's annoying that you can't just do: > > my_obj = object() > > which would be even simpler, because (for reasons I don't understand), > you can't create new attributes on my_obj. Python 3.4 on Windows (32-bit): >>> import sys >>> class Data: pass >>> sys.getsizeof(Data()) 32 >>> sys.getsizeof(object()) 8 Even before you add a single attribute, the object is four times the size it needs to be. When you need a sentinel (for a function's default argument, for instance), you don't need any attributes on it - all you need is some object whose identity can be tested. And the excess would be multiplied by a fairly large number of objects in the system (it's not just object() that doesn't take attributes). If you want a bag of attributes, get a bag of attributes, don't expect object() to be it :) The only reason I can think of for expecting a basic object to work this way is because of the parallel with ECMAScript; it's not a fundamental part of the type hierarchy. ChrisA