Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object

References	(1 earlier) <87r40zmkhr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53dd0717$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <857g2qd5oc.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <mailman.12580.1407068955.18130.python-list@python.org> <roy-AC5165.08404803082014@news.panix.com>
Date	2014-08-03 22:56 +1000
Subject	Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object
From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.12581.1407070605.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>  I usually just do:
>
> class Data:
>    pass
> my_obj = Data()
>
> That's all you really need.  It's annoying that you can't just do:
>
> my_obj = object()
>
> which would be even simpler, because (for reasons I don't understand),
> you can't create new attributes on my_obj.

Python 3.4 on Windows (32-bit):
>>> import sys
>>> class Data: pass
>>> sys.getsizeof(Data())
32
>>> sys.getsizeof(object())
8

Even before you add a single attribute, the object is four times the
size it needs to be. When you need a sentinel (for a function's
default argument, for instance), you don't need any attributes on it -
all you need is some object whose identity can be tested. And the
excess would be multiplied by a fairly large number of objects in the
system (it's not just object() that doesn't take attributes). If you
want a bag of attributes, get a bag of attributes, don't expect
object() to be it :) The only reason I can think of for expecting a
basic object to work this way is because of the parallel with
ECMAScript; it's not a fundamental part of the type hierarchy.

ChrisA

Thread

3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Mark Summerfield <list@qtrac.plus.com> - 2014-08-01 23:45 -0700
  Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-02 10:14 +0300
    Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Mark Summerfield <list@qtrac.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 00:38 -0700
      Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-02 11:03 +0300
        Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-03 02:00 +1000
          Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-02 20:07 +0300
            Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-02 18:29 +0100
              Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-02 21:33 +0300
    Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-03 01:43 +1000
      Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-03 05:58 +1000
        Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Mark Summerfield <list@qtrac.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 13:46 -0700
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 07:05 +1000
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-02 22:16 +0100
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 07:24 +1000
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-02 22:23 +0100
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 16:18 -0700
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 09:27 +1000
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object (was: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 18:59 -0600
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-02 22:40 -0400
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-02 22:43 -0400
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Albert-Jan Roskam <fomcl@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-03 02:17 -0700
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-08-03 11:37 +0200
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Albert-Jan Roskam <fomcl@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-03 03:51 -0700
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Albert-Jan Roskam <fomcl@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-03 04:14 -0700
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-08-03 13:23 +0200
            Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-03 17:51 +0300
              Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 11:09 -0400
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-03 18:52 +0300
              Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-03 18:55 -0400
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-04 11:19 +1000
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-04 01:26 -0400
              Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-04 10:13 +1000
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 20:59 -0400
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-04 13:00 +1200
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-04 08:41 +0300
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-04 00:41 -0600
                Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-04 09:57 +0300
          Re: Correct type for a simple "bag of attributes" namespace object Akira Li <4kir4.1i@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 18:22 +0400
      Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-03 13:28 +0100
        Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 08:40 -0400
          Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 22:56 +1000
            Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 09:25 -0400
              Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 23:35 +1000
                Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 10:36 -0400
                Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-04 01:00 +1000
      Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-03 18:38 +0100
        Re: Correct type for a simple “bag of attributes” namespace object Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-03 13:44 -0400
  Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-02 08:46 +0100
    Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Mark Summerfield <list@qtrac.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 01:03 -0700
      Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-02 19:14 -0400
  Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-02 19:12 -0400
  Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Brian Blais <bblais@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 07:36 -0400
    Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-05 15:04 +0300
      Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-08-05 07:31 -0500
        Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-05 16:19 +0300
          Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-05 15:11 +0100
          Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-06 02:14 +1000
      Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-05 22:43 +1000
        Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 23:08 +1000
      Re: 3 Suggestions to Make Python Easier For Children Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 23:00 +1000

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