Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.mixmin.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; '(at': 0.04; 'url:launchpad': 0.05; 'installed.': 0.07; 'python3': 0.07; 'skip:` 10': 0.07; 'subject:Getting': 0.07; 'subject:help': 0.08; 'code"': 0.09; 'executes': 0.09; 'implemented.': 0.09; 'imported': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:modules': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '2.7': 0.14; 'windows': 0.15; 'imports': 0.16; 'kern': 0.16; 'modules,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'module': 0.19; 'packages.': 0.19; 'seems': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'import': 0.22; 'separate': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'parse': 0.24; 'together.': 0.24; "haven't": 0.24; 'extension': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'installed': 0.27; 'url:bugs': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'robert': 0.30; 'subject:list': 0.30; '>>>>': 0.31; 'crash': 0.31; 'this.': 0.32; 'checked': 0.32; 'subject:all': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'url:source': 0.33; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'subject: (': 0.35; 'subject:with': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'possible': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'received:71': 0.39; 'reported': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'system.': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'information': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; '09:33,': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: python-list@python.org
From: Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject: Re: Bug with help (was Re: Getting a list of all modules)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 14:17:26 -0400
References: <53d8a20e$0$29977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87oaw5xsrd.fsf@gmail.com> <lre4r8$mbf$1@ger.gmane.org> <mailman.12532.1406945886.18130.python-list@python.org> <k78pt9ddlm16g3v6r44c3ei1l7k1rljt5a@4ax.com> <lrikl6$145$1@ger.gmane.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-71-175-90-87.phlapa.fios.verizon.net
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
In-Reply-To: <lrikl6$145$1@ger.gmane.org>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.12547.1407003467.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 36
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1407003467 news.xs4all.nl 2969 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:52732
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:75543

On 8/2/2014 8:13 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2014-08-02 09:33, Heinz Schmitz wrote:
>> Akira Li wrote:
>>
>>>>> Look at how `help('modules')` is implemented. Though it crashes on my
>>>>> system.
>>
>>>> Have you reported this at bugs.python.org or is there already an issue
>>>> for the problem that you see?
>>
>>> It is this issue for python2.7:
>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.7/+bug/896836
>>>
>>> python3 doesn't crash with currently installed packages.
>>
>> Python 2.7 on Windows XP Sp2 doesn't crash with this. So it seems to
>> be a python<->OS-problem.

It is a local system problem.

> Well, it's just that `help('modules')` imports every module in the
> calling process (at least in Python 2.7; I haven't checked Python 3).
> Some extension modules conflict with each other and cause a crash when
> both are imported together. It's possible that you just don't have such
> modules installed. While the proximate cause of the crash is in the 3rd
> party modules, Python could (and maybe Python 3 does) import each module
> in a separate subprocess and collect the information that way.

That would slow down help('modules') much more.  The suggestion in
http://bugs.python.org/issue12902
"help("modules") executes module code"
is that help() should instead parse the module to get the docstring.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy