Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder3.xlned.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!194.109.133.87.MISMATCH!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.013 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'output': 0.05; 'canvas': 0.07; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'style.': 0.09; 'texts.': 0.09; 'window.': 0.09; 'jan': 0.12; 'windows': 0.15; '*real*': 0.16; 'cleaner': 0.16; 'code?': 0.16; 'distinct': 0.16; 'drastic': 0.16; 'preserving': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'recorded': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'shortcut': 0.16; 'stumbling': 0.16; 'subclasses': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'which,': 0.16; 'appropriate': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'slightly': 0.19; 'split': 0.19; 'separate': 0.22; 'shell': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'instead.': 0.24; 'tracker': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'url:bugs': 0.29; 'subject:please': 0.30; 'included': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'comments': 0.31; 'another.': 0.31; 'extending': 0.31; 'moderate': 0.31; 'subject:users': 0.31; 'text': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'implemented': 0.33; 'comment': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'subject: (': 0.35; 'editor': 0.35; 'johnson': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'idle': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'clear': 0.37; 'window': 0.38; 'handle': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'received:71': 0.39; 'reported': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'new': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'offer': 0.62; 'making': 0.63; 'july': 0.63; 'myself': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'worth': 0.66; 'here': 0.66; '20,': 0.68; 'design.': 0.68; 'improvements': 0.68; 'integrated': 0.69; 'saving': 0.69; 'secret': 0.74; '*and*': 0.84; 'keystrokes': 0.84; 'locked': 0.84; 'promptly': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'subject:read': 0.84; 'besides,': 0.93; 'convinced': 0.93; 'rick': 0.93; 'yourself,': 0.95 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:49:37 -0400 References: <53c5f6dc$0$9505$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87egxl4zq8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53c73ff0$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <9ef930a0-5a41-4a20-a13a-003c9e8246fe@googlegroups.com> <9b5557e3-45ea-4d3b-81cd-90d69322c556@googlegroups.com> <64e2ac85-5c95-4834-b140-2189b884fb02@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-71-175-90-87.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1405914592 news.xs4all.nl 2940 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57417 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:74903 On 7/20/2014 9:22 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:52:36 PM UTC-5, Terry Reedy wrote: > The *real* problem is that the "interactive events" of the > "editor window" and the "interactive events" of the "shell > window" are far too tightly integrated with one another. > > I myself appreciate the finger saving principles of "DRY", > however, sometimes, two distinct functionalities just > cannot be implemented *IN A CLEAR MANNER* without repeating > *some* of the code. > > We need to understand that IDLE is split into two distinct > "modes", if you will -- the "interactive shell" and the > "editor window". Attempting to use the same code to handle > keystrokes for the shell *AND* the editor is a stumbling > block to extending this mess. Slightly simplifying, the shell window and output windows are subclasses of the current editor window. I have thought about making all three inherit from a base interactive window. This would be a bit cleaner than the current design. I am not convinced of the need for more drastic change. >> Ideas don't count until recorded on the tracker. Which, as I reported back here, is why I promptly included both your OutputUndo idea and suggestion for a separate event and shortcut key in a new issue on the tracker. > Hmm, okay. >> Saimadhav has locked together a thin canvas with the text >> for line numbers. It works in all my texts. I am just >> waiting for him to try it with a thin text instead. If you >> know some secret you think he missed. please describe it >> here. > > How can i offer improvements if i don't know where to find > the code? http://bugs.python.org/issue17535 > And besides, if my comments here "don't count" The ideas that I think are worth preserving and that I think are appropriate for the tracker I will put on the tracker. You can comment directly on the tracker yourself, but you would have to moderate your style. -- Terry Jan Reedy