Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Parens do create a tuple Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:51:34 +1000 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com> <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 7blHBEzG55XS4UmIsqN1cQBaF4TdMoTqUyM94FaJzCzg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.008 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'incorrect': 0.09; 'subject:create': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'python.': 0.11; '2016': 0.16; 'correctness': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'one- element': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'trap': 0.16; 'trap.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'case.': 0.18; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'am,': 0.23; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'point.': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'correct': 0.28; "i'd": 0.31; 'statement': 0.32; 'useful': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'lines': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'wrong': 0.38; 'rather': 0.39; 'some': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.61; 'more': 0.63; 'helping': 0.67; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'fortunately,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QHaZTJeSw166hx/opUn5Fzmo1HLXvxBP5h41FlwoTZI=; b=QqF6fDXJPj4E6Nm/qO65zj7zi8WTGKZcsiRnjwbnXIzi49BUXPBpclTOFuzcrOAEtv qYdEYn4FYyW2endjycvGYcdwFKu2cx7v9YplkwK7DMAka7uxkfkh5jeQlDpH8TCDMm7z pLEQUrokZXqIqHjvl4sdvAeCcFSFcwAHOOGxED1QyhxPXe/7NgvMIrmE/8k/MNXCYasc pTtulvhTOfc8xFS1gOVodRE6mUZaZIsjX4v1v43QwBVwz2AoyG3BDUjlNJdZU9M+fd2/ A/8xFfGnYB0Wbex6dEMlBb3ALRittXmCQlDuHAzoJyP+c9vKjNCIwUOFLHNaeTmcgccs Kk/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QHaZTJeSw166hx/opUn5Fzmo1HLXvxBP5h41FlwoTZI=; b=Ie9pfzWaarLMkhPMM2ESYjW3VODgivwWcvxGK8V7J5UdhSXiwKZhZ8JNvLtynVuFX+ a0KcH6whK586WxaxFUwhvpdbAKrOO2LXiYJxWEGI+fCcxpF35zCLCf4I28wjGg/VgqN0 r5PJX/UsmNls7243opn96VzFdukRa/kep+ZWy4DxURWFmyqlYTiP038jbIhmCzva7p9c U+gfCyfS4rwlAdlTOX5vFo5KG6MmeQJ4etuKreDxqld/7WpftvE2vyLomXx8yCEgOhpO 3MmmurOz07dwnftflwk/zfTin0HlpVPgUVe6XVxu4gKvOuSajeZiHaaCR2rDgYtH2Lk5 eVVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJkfgq1ts50GPY09vk/Yudw/9xD8/f77FxCqluJ7ROnZ7B3zfpVPPzkkXBZZt52lzdhdmxdki1Sk7RaIg== X-Received: by 10.50.23.80 with SMTP id k16mr16117331igf.94.1460339494766; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com> <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:106833 On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Ben Finney w= rote: >> I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty >> than the other way around. > > To say =E2=80=9Ccommas create tuples=E2=80=9D is to say an unobjectionabl= y true > statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn > Python. > > To say =E2=80=9Cparens do not create tuples=E2=80=9D is to lay a trap whi= ch needs to be > de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap. Fair. "Commas create tuples" is correct but incomplete; "parens do not create tuples" is incorrect in a narrow way. Fortunately, technical correctness lines up with the more useful case of helping people understand the one-element case. ChrisA