Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.albasani.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.010
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'environments': 0.07; 'ide': 0.09; 'unified': 0.09; 'vast': 0.09; 'works.': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'gui': 0.12; 'windows': 0.15; 'debugger,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'matlab': 0.16; 'python;': 0.16; 'students)': 0.16; 'usable': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'thu,': 0.19; 'programming': 0.22; 'comfortable': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'lets': 0.24; 'mathematical': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'appear': 0.29; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'easier': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'run': 0.32; 'problem': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'johnson': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'programming,': 0.36; 'experience,': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'easiest': 0.38; 'tools,': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'environment.': 0.39; 'help,': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'simply': 0.61; "you'll": 0.62; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'choose': 0.64; 'grab': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'world': 0.66; 'jul': 0.74; 'together,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92; 'rick': 0.93
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=SwLENsEOfu7CicChvxN1NJs1LnmZTlYeo1Jzu5XAjVY=; b=Pubq0RKy5PCUzeISQL2JxxNmZYGf/02TZtTrfdljkWS2aZlTDyONiCcExR/UiGanDZ sbE8JRNkbC/76WGsn8SYhDsDHuBdGwQ2M2dt58WHB2NkPV+KqB/Vi+mfrkExi+wiQBnq HKhDfiT0vrii3D4MhEJZ3BSENBOf/WxakzBv0cG0gPJ5l287oy9uj1RafXK5gJE9/cgI 6imdl3QwiwXz/XL3cL0yIyvyE/HE2wKYw3ygZRvPHKZ3KaDGqc8JY5grM1NXn3NO7FAn mCamOjiTT22wphxW+WG9pHj5s/EuUPXPEhLilhhtP9MFNfPmdNX7z6WseUtF1G1zoTbt Ep9A==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.220.164.198 with SMTP id f6mr16782402vcy.51.1405595545913; Thu, 17 Jul 2014 04:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <lq87i5$3ae$5@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mailman.10416.1401304999.18130.python-list@python.org> <57ajo9poljjre4c4ig0n0ss8kph8k78lp0@4ax.com> <5389cb53$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <99b7b2a2-7521-42d7-a5a0-1a35d4d5b922@googlegroups.com> <53C4A454.9010600@gmail.com> <mailman.11826.1405398039.18130.python-list@python.org> <lq365f$4c9$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.11836.1405429260.18130.python-list@python.org> <lq3bvu$ob4$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.11838.1405434699.18130.python-list@python.org> <87zjga4j4v.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53c57bae$0$9505$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87iomy4ciy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53c5f6dc$0$9505$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87egxl4zq8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.11880.1405520883.18130.python-list@python.org> <c3cd4600-9c22-4261-b7bf-ac325dbf4e6c@googlegroups.com> <53c73ff0$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <9ef930a0-5a41-4a20-a13a-003c9e8246fe@googlegroups.com> <lq87i5$3ae$5@speranza.aioe.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:12:25 +1000
Subject: Re: Python 3 is killing Python
From: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Cc: "python-list@python.org" <python-list@python.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.11923.1405595549.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 23
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1405595549 news.xs4all.nl 2906 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39003
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:74634

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17.07.2014 06:47, Rick Johnson wrote:> Even though i will freely admit
> that Python is the easiest
>> language to learn (IMHO)
>
> For non-informatic students (i.e the vast majority of science/engineering
> students) I don't think that's true. Less general languages like Matlab
> appear much easier to me: unified doc, unified IDE, unified debugger, you
> can spend years without being confronted to what an "object" is, etc.

That's always going to be true. If you have mathematical experience,
you'll be much more comfortable with a math-specific setup than with a
general programming environment. But for general programming, the IDE
isn't that much help, and the math-specific language is going to get
in the way. This is why there are so many different environments to
choose from; if you want something that makes it really easy to put a
Windows GUI program together, you probably grab one of the Microsoft
tools, but if you want something that lets you run your program on any
platform and still have a usable GUI, you want something
cross-platform (tkinter, GTK, wx, Qt). This is not a problem with
Python; it's simply how the world works.

ChrisA