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Groups > comp.lang.python > #74486
| References | (4 earlier) <53C4A454.9010600@gmail.com> <mailman.11826.1405398039.18130.python-list@python.org> <lq365f$4c9$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.11836.1405429260.18130.python-list@python.org> <lq3bvu$ob4$1@dont-email.me> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-16 00:31 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Python 3 is killing Python |
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.11838.1405434699.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote: > The number of language revisions that result in deliberate, code-level > incompatibility out there is pretty small. People rightly expect that code > written for version 2.x of a language will continue to work with version > 3.x, even if 3.x is designed to go in another direction. That's not strictly true. I would generally expect some concept of version numbering along the lines of semver.org's recommendations, or the Debian packaging guidelines (I think), or, or, or, or, or. You know the sort of thing: major.minor.revision, where "revision" changes shouldn't break anything unless you were, perhaps unwittingly, depending on a bug; "minor" changes add features, and might break code that was, say, using a new language keyword as an identifier (eg you can use "with" as a function name in Python 2.4, but in Python 2.6 that won't work); and "major" changes can cause backward incompatibility. That's not absolutely strictly true of all Python versions, but it's certainly very close. You would expect Python version 3.x to be broadly the same language as Python 2.x, but you cannot expect code to automatically run unmodified. That's the whole point of a major version number change. And that's exactly what we see; the similarities between Python 2.7 and 3.4 are pretty huge compared to the differences. They are definitely the same language. > I can only think of two widely used languages in the last decade where there > was this type of major break in binary compatibility: Perl and Visual Basic. ANSI C broke quite a bit compared to previous C implementations. Doesn't have quite a "version number", but it's the same concept. Object REXX (OREXX) breaks several things in Classic REXX (REXX). Both of those precede "the last decade", but I'd say the same thing applies: if the name or major version number changes, you can expect differences. (For this reason, I have never actually released a RosMud version 2.0; once I went stable with 1.0, I never needed to make backward-incompatible changes. The latest - and probably last - version is 1.7.0, and the project has been succeeded by Gypsum, which is a brand new project... new name, incompatible APIs.) > I've stayed with Python 2.7 because I've seen no benefit in 3.x that > outweighs the hassle of going through my code line by line to make it > compatible. And that's fine! The python-dev team has promised that 2.7 will continue to be supported; that means some headaches, especially on Windows (the Python 2.7 support will long outlast upstream Microsoft support for the compiler it's built on), but it's a promise that you can continue to run your 2.7 code. That said, though, I would advise you to give 2to3 a shot. You never know, it might do exactly what you need right out-of-the-box and give you a 3.x-compatible codebase in one hit. > Though I expect I will eventually update to 3.x, however, like many other > developers I am also annoyed by the decision to break backwards > compatibility in Python. The decision strikes me as arrogant. Cruft and > backwards compatibility are an inevitable part of any mature programming > language, and maintaining compatibility is important--more important than > bolting on shiny new features, in my view. If shiny new features must be > added, they should be added side-by-side with older API's. Big problem with that: it means that everyone who learns the language has to wrestle with *both* APIs. It's impossible to fix bugs. So how about this as a compromise: We'll have this special flag at the top of the program that says whether it should be in "compatibility mode" or "shiny new features mode". And hey, let's write it like this: #!/usr/local/bin/python2 # This program runs in compatibility mode. #!/usr/local/bin/python3 # This program gets all the new features. Python *is* maintaining backward compatibility. It's fundamentally not possible to add some of Python 3's features without some pretty big changes (look at, for instance, the str/bytes changes - essential to proper i18n, but impossible to do to a Py2-compatible interpreter), so the only way to do it is to continue to support Py2 while doing new development on Py3. > I think the Python developers have undervalued the conservator part of their > role. No, they haven't. That's exactly why Python 2.7 is to be supported for so long (2020 according to current plans), and why PEP 466 and such are so important. There's a lot of Python 2 code out there, and python-dev's taking the responsibility very seriously. > ... I see Python 3.x's failure to silently and > successfully import 2.x code as a failure on the language's end. Fine. Tell me how you would go about adding true Unicode support to Python 2.7, while still having it able to import an unchanged program. Trick question - it's fundamentally impossible, because an unchanged program will not distinguish between bytes and text, but true Unicode support requires that they be distinguished. The best you could do would be to rewrite your code into some kind of hybrid, which would then be able to run on both versions; there are ways of doing this, but if you're going to rewrite your code, you may as well go straight to Py3 and take advantage of its features. Ultimately, the solution is simply to keep Python 2.7 around for a good long time, until the carrot of new Py3 features becomes attractive enough for it to be worth switching. And if that's not before 2020, no problem. Even if it's after 2020, there's a fair chance that you'll still be able to run your 2.7 code - it's just that there's no promise (at the moment) of patches, even security patches, from python.org. If you're running RHEL, you might get full support for several more years after 2020. That's a pretty long time, when you consider that Python 3.1 came out in 2009. ChrisA
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Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-28 21:39 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 22:41 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:58 -0500
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Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 21:23 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:38 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 21:24 +0100
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Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-14 23:47 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:00 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:18 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 09:28 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:54 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:11 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:40 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 06:31 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 05:41 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:15 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-07-17 17:36 +1200
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Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:05 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:30 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 00:59 +0100
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Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:35 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 08:38 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python beliavsky@aol.com - 2014-08-06 06:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-06 14:42 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 12:42 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:37 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-07 21:07 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:57 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-05-31 12:07 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-31 13:09 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-31 13:22 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 04:57 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 13:35 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 21:11 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:38 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-01 07:01 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 07:52 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:41 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 12:53 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-01 17:21 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-02 07:14 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-31 12:30 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-31 08:48 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:15 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-02 12:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 02:30 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:52 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-02 19:16 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 11:53 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 18:59 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-02 23:12 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 23:30 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-03 09:03 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-06-03 07:22 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:58 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 00:23 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:31 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:47 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:17 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 23:00 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 09:57 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 00:31 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 20:38 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 19:06 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 23:01 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 03:51 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 14:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 08:52 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:26 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 09:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:50 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 00:11 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:49 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:44 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 11:35 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:54 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 13:46 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 12:10 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:55 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:10 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 16:11 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 00:04 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 17:39 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:23 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 18:48 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 02:07 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 19:20 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 02:51 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-17 12:27 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 07:18 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:49 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-07-30 14:31 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 17:02 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 18:47 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-16 16:27 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 15:41 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 00:00 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:16 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:14 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 08:17 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:49 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:34 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:17 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 23:54 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:16 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 12:12 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:12 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:15 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:27 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-17 21:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 19:24 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:39 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:40 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:34 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:19 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 08:35 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-18 17:25 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:45 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 20:06 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2014-07-17 12:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 21:37 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 17:30 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 20:13 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:38 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 01:26 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:54 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Andrew Berg <aberg010@my.hennepintech.edu> - 2014-07-17 19:45 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 13:01 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:45 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:37 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 15:34 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 02:21 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 18:27 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 16:46 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:49 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:50 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 17:22 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:27 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 09:29 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 02:41 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 12:00 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 13:39 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:13 +1000
Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 16:45 -0400
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 18:31 -0700
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:42 +1000
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-20 12:40 +0100
Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 17:52 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 18:22 -0700
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 11:32 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:49 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 10:55 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:28 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 13:34 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 05:00 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-21 13:00 -0700
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 20:56 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 14:30 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 04:35 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 15:50 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 19:23 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:10 +1000
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-21 02:54 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:20 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 19:31 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 20:44 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 14:37 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-07-18 18:09 -0400
Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-19 07:28 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 11:08 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 14:31 -0400
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-20 01:23 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:39 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:53 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 08:37 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 14:18 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 07:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:19 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 10:41 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:24 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 19:03 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 20:10 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-01 13:10 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 21:22 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 15:19 +0300
Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 22:30 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-01 23:10 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 23:30 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 18:13 +0300
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:38 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-06 22:51 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 15:28 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:32 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-11 09:37 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 20:20 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-11 14:45 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:42 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 10:11 +1000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 19:27 -0500
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 02:07 +0000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 12:13 +1000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 21:23 -0500
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 12:42 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-13 23:35 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-13 16:51 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 00:39 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 11:14 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Olaf Hering <olaf@aepfle.de> - 2014-08-02 09:10 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:38 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-01 19:16 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:39 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 13:46 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 14:22 -0600
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-01 22:09 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 12:00 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 10:20 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:33 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 23:01 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:01 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 11:12 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 14:55 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:04 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-03 09:46 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-02 10:27 -0400
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:20 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:48 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 13:29 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-06 02:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 19:25 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 14:28 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:26 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-08-03 21:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:18 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Javier <nospam@nospam.com> - 2014-07-16 17:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 11:50 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 04:25 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-07-16 11:48 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 18:34 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 08:31 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:41 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 09:09 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 17:59 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Glenn Linderman <v+python@g.nevcal.com> - 2014-08-01 23:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 21:24 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:07 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 02:08 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:05 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:43 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 18:30 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 04:10 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 16:53 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-16 02:57 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:20 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:38 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 09:07 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 09:18 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 12:20 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:17 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-07-16 00:45 +0100
Interleaved posting style for text discussion forums (was: Python 3 is killing Python) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:02 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 23:38 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 20:43 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-07-15 23:05 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-16 13:59 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:01 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 21:08 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:57 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:53 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:20 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:46 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:53 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2014-07-15 17:02 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 15:43 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:44 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 01:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:03 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 10:36 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 03:52 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:38 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:01 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 06:33 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:00 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-31 15:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:05 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> - 2014-07-12 10:50 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Deb Wyatt <codemonkey@inbox.com> - 2014-05-31 09:28 -0800
csiph-web