Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.076 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.85; '*S*': 0.00; 'cpython': 0.05; 'happily': 0.07; 'override': 0.07; 'received:10.50': 0.09; 'utf-8': 0.09; 'programmer': 0.10; 'am,': 0.12; 'enabling': 0.13; 'agree.': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'irrelevant,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'issue.': 0.19; 'received:209.85.210.174': 0.21; 'received:mail- iy0-f174.google.com': 0.21; "doesn't": 0.22; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.22; 'default,': 0.23; 'indentation': 0.23; 'referring': 0.23; 'expect': 0.25; 'windows': 0.26; 'bit': 0.28; 'definition': 0.30; 'argue': 0.30; 'over.': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'message- id:@gmail.com': 0.31; 'on,': 0.31; 'change.': 0.32; 'minor': 0.32; 'that,': 0.32; 'programmers': 0.32; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'majority': 0.34; 'clarify': 0.34; 'option.': 0.34; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'things': 0.35; 'issue': 0.37; 'encoding': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'using': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'enough': 0.38; 'received:192': 0.38; 'authors': 0.38; 'think': 0.38; 'should': 0.38; 'team,': 0.39; 'received:192.168.1': 0.39; 'option': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'point': 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'subject:Please': 0.40; 'header:Received:6': 0.61; 'talking': 0.62; 'matter': 0.62; 'chance': 0.62; 'choose': 0.64; '\xe2\x80\x93': 0.65; 'care': 0.71; '8bit%:46': 0.73; 'spaces': 0.73; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.74; 'flame': 0.84; 'habit': 0.84; 'ignorant': 0.84; 'same:': 0.84; 'wars': 0.84; 'avoided.': 0.91; 'who,': 0.91; 'subject:!!': 0.93 Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bahamutzero8825@gmail.com designates 10.50.193.195 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.50.193.195; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bahamutzero8825@gmail.com designates 10.50.193.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=bahamutzero8825@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=bahamutzero8825@gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9zSJpXbysSILKXcyyb9SVCPHB7ZoeBwO9ePttaQHQJY=; b=Hb4i6CqLl42hiQa4/OaSR/Sw0neEJuybr7FH8TAzF4NPJizd0rucsVwFv45DYqMqCE ibEvILW7PGUVru/pLTIDaQcLP7v/7BzhwAd2XQYdsirnISEKjQhvEvb/O8GfGTQTnBqG CYE5hYakscT+UoUzYjQ+b9U9NjuHf467e+w0o= Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:18:18 -0600 From: Andrew Berg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111220 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "comp.lang.python" Subject: Re: Please verify!! References: <724ccbd6-30d1-41bd-bf38-2a5ce82953a1@x19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <4F46C124.2070102@davea.name> <87mx88tyvc.fsf@benfinney.id.au> In-Reply-To: <87mx88tyvc.fsf@benfinney.id.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1330075122 news.xs4all.nl 6869 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:33068 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:20794 On 2/24/2012 2:32 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > Are you referring to novice programmers – who, by any reasonable > definition of “novice”, don't have an opinion on the tabs-versus-spaces > indentation debate? > > Or are you talking about people who are experienced enough to have an > opinion and expect their editor to allow them the choice? The former. Opinion doesn't necessarily come with experience - habit will usually override any minor reason to change. My point is that one should have an opinion on it, not just be told which is better. I should clarify that I mean that in a general sense as well, since it may have come across as a bit of an overreaction. > The reason is the same: spaces for indentation and UTF-8 for encoding > will both allow them the best chance of ignoring the issue as > irrelevant, by enabling the smoothest collaboration with the vast > majority of other programmers who have to work with them. If by that, you mean that using spaces is better because it's what the majority of programmers use, and it makes things much smoother when working with others, then I agree. When working in a team, it's definitely not something to argue over. > And in both those issues, I think it's ludicrous to expect the novice > programmer to care enough about the matter to have an opinion and select > a configuration option. The editor authors should choose the best option > for them as a default, and let most users sail on, happily ignorant of > the flame wars they have avoided. A valid point. I think one should have an opinion, but I can see why one would avoid the issue. -- CPython 3.2.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17640