Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!feeder.news-service.com!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.061 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.88; '*S*': 0.00; 'tab': 0.07; 'worse': 0.07; 'broken': 0.12; 'wrote:': 0.15; 'both.': 0.16; 'columns': 0.16; 'objectively': 0.16; 'plethora': 0.16; '16,': 0.16; 'tries': 0.16; 'pm,': 0.16; 'simpler': 0.19; 'input': 0.21; 'pointed': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'indentation': 0.23; 'long.': 0.23; 'personally,': 0.23; 'code': 0.24; 'later': 0.26; 'somebody': 0.28; 'sat,': 0.28; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'problem': 0.29; 'this.': 0.31; 'lines': 0.31; 'pure': 0.32; 'too': 0.32; "i've": 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.34; 'there': 0.34; 'reasons': 0.34; 'yet,': 0.35; 'pretty': 0.35; 'uses': 0.35; 'file': 0.36; 'but': 0.37; 'using': 0.37; 'another': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'received:209.85.161': 0.38; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'steven': 0.38; 'think': 0.38; 'problems': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'might': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.40; 'mandate': 0.67; 'flow': 0.68; 'spaces': 0.73; 'subject:have': 0.74; 'adhere': 0.84; 'alternative.': 0.84; 'defeat': 0.84; 'laid': 0.84; 'spaces.': 0.84; 'subject:should': 0.84; 'device,': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=mydxNg9PbXRqIViBw+3O1W07F9Gf1KzrklGUneH2L2Y=; b=b3grpAmTk+wZ36FJKAKp/1eVJ3Wz9XW/Y3waGpWU6fnXB1Px5dTzIYQ05NHaA/j30K h0MFHWx1bqn9LGWXMBOLd9qnt1jrMbB5Rvv63j6HQXsqDznxE6AXsepe6Z/psZ4k5LeQ kZe4DtF/PSVLXlDfeOKtPGJgX9Z7zaV2vWtKo= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4e225255$0$29990$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <4e225255$0$29990$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> From: Ian Kelly Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:32:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Tabs -vs- Spaces: Tabs should have won. To: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1310888010 news.xs4all.nl 23844 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:36175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:9677 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Personally, I like to use the tab _key_ as an input device, but to have >> my editor write real spaces to the file in consequence. With pure >> spaces, the text is laid out reliably for us both. And so I have my >> editor set to that behaviour. > > I have reluctantly come to do the same thing. There is a plethora of broken > tools out there that don't handle tabs well, and consequently even though > tabs for indentation are objectively better, I use spaces because it is > less worse than the alternative. This. I used to think that tabs were better, for pretty much the reasons Rick outlined, but I've had enough problems with editors munging my tabs that I eventually found it simpler in practice to just go with the flow and use spaces. Of course, there is also another major problem with tabs that I have not seen pointed out yet, which is that it's not possible to strictly adhere to 80-column lines with tabs. I can write my code to 80 columns using 4-space tabs, but if somebody later tries to edit the file using 8-space tabs, their lines will be too long. Rick's answer to this might be to just mandate that everybody uses 4-space tabs, but then this would pretty much defeat the purpose of using tabs in the first place.