Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'subject:Python': 0.04; 'wed,': 0.04; 'python.': 0.05; 'abstraction': 0.07; 'desirable.': 0.07; 'assumed': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'pm,': 0.11; 'say,': 0.14; 'wrote:': 0.14; 'briefings': 0.16; 'occasionally': 0.16; 'language': 0.20; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'sometimes,': 0.23; 'subject:data': 0.26; 'chris': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'subject:?': 0.29; 'assuming': 0.29; 'like.': 0.29; 'language.': 0.31; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.32; 'subject:What': 0.35; 'subject:use': 0.35; 'data': 0.37; 'should': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.37; 'hardware': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'explain': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'works': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; '2011': 0.62; 'below': 0.63; 'perfectly': 0.65; 'unnecessary': 0.73; 'leak': 0.84; 'received:209.85.210.174': 0.84; 'received:mail- iy0-f174.google.com': 0.84; 'subject:other': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UPToBZCq6+/sJhQrB30zcj3RgNbpdgAf7kfnsvx8afE=; b=TVFLSoJU+2Vcg0vEaJUpGTpaYjqOjPfSMXowcJGIMuckhmZjUUJ9einw/za+V+33PS KQ+73ieTCrwJvWTMuN9jzLFMIZjK5Y1W0zGsu3kyWJHQn9cI7iZBc7Eneh8pyvE+CWGa gbbkrudTpGhS4a45/U1bTDKHSV+MoMEKkX1lo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wSprWee2cpSUnjY1nl4MCtTJI2Hz+9xxCMcF+EJol2mCoffj3X1f/l6DICJX+3/kpa +f7Mgh9IUNkX6SjP+IzSvDKjfU330zBD8PFH9X22HJG6ExF+mMyhx5u24dp9Ln3iJshg iPWWwgEI+nbQnDmEyNcNPjL9TYd5S/Q6AlfJI= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7q1898-f3l.ln1@svn.schaathun.net> References: <4dbd1dbf$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <77f64071-b288-404c-8280-b2c61ba77f06@n10g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> <4dc12fb4$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <7q1898-f3l.ln1@svn.schaathun.net> Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 00:20:34 +1000 Subject: Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.94.164.166 X-Trace: 1304518838 news.xs4all.nl 41113 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:40362 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:4615 On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Hans Georg Schaathun wr= ote: > It is contorted and implementation-level because it is one level below > the abstraction assumed by the language. =A0It only works by assuming > knowledge of C, which is language which has proved unsuitable for > complex and abstract data modelling. =A0Digging down into C should be > unnecessary to explain Python. Sometimes, to explain Python, you need to dig down to the underlying hardware - even deeper than C, if you like. And that's always going to be the way, because abstractions leak from time to time. Or I should say, they occasionally have confidential briefings with the press. Abstracting everything perfectly is neither possible nor desirable. Chris Angelico