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To: python-list@python.org
From: Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Subject: Offense versus harrassment (was: Sexism in the Ruby community: how does the Python community manage it?)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:44:01 +1100
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Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> writes:

> On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 00:22:47 -0400, random832 wrote:
>
> > While this flippant usage of "Nazi" (based on, as I understand it,
> > Seinfeld's "soup nazi") may be offensive, it has nothing to do with
> > sexism. If the scope of this discussion is to be offensive module
> > names generally, then the subject line should have mentioned that.

My position: The package name “upskirt” is damaging to a 3rd-millennium
community that wants to welcome diversity; the package name “pep8nazi”
is not. The difference comes from differences in the present-day
cultural context.

Nazis, while they were an awful oppressive influence in society in the
first half of the 20th century, are not an influence now in the 3rd
millennium. Making a self-reference to “nazi” does not seriously shelter
anyone's bad behaviour, since so much time has passed since Nazis
significantly harrassed anyone.

Upskirt photos *are* an antisocial phenomenon now in the 3rd millennium,
contributing significantly to a culture that demeans and harrasses
women. To make a self-reference to “upskirt” trivialises the damage
caused to present-day people by this phenomenon, encouraging dismissive
jokes and reinforcing tendencies to bad behaviour by giving tacit
shelter to bad actors.

> There is nothing wrong with "pep8nazi", and to paraphrase Stephen Fry,
> if you're offended, so what? There is no guarantee that you will go
> through life never seeing anything that offends you.

That's a fine quote. It is limited in application, though, to those who
are *merely* taking offense. It says nothing in support of saying things
which dismissively joke about harrassment of present-day people.

The name “pep8nazi” does not, in my opinion, contribute to an existing
culture of harrassment in the context of the 3rd millennium. I may be
wrong, but I doubt anyone today is going to feel unwelcome in the Python
community because of that package name: there is no underprivileged
segment of society seriously oppressed by Nazis today, to my knowledge.

The name “upskirt” does contribute to an existing culture of harrassment
in the context of the 3rd millennium — specifically, the harrassment of
women by creeps taking unsolicited photographs up their skirts. For the
Python community to display such a package name fosters an environment
unwelcoming to an already-underprivileged segment of society.

On that basis, I judge the package name “pep8nazi” to be merely a
slightly off-colour joke, and the package name “upskirt” to be
unacceptable in a culture that values a welcoming environment.

-- 
 \        “I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour in |
  `\                                 only ten minutes.” —Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney