Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: eryk sun Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:24:00 -0500 Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr> <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr> <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de iBjWh/CduqkjmcJcYwyuXAVzouKOb6QGNE5arZqkvBsg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'anyway.': 0.04; 'subject:PEP': 0.07; 'url:msdn': 0.07; 'api': 0.09; 'driver,': 0.09; 'instances.': 0.09; 'sys.stderr': 0.09; 'sys.stdout': 0.09; "they've": 0.09; 'output': 0.13; 'apps': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'scripts.': 0.16; 'subsystem': 0.16; 'url:blogs': 0.16; 'vista.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'input': 0.18; 'runs': 0.18; 'windows': 0.20; 'handles': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; 'fairly': 0.22; 'meant': 0.22; 'ctypes': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'sat,': 0.23; 'sets': 0.23; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; "doesn't": 0.26; 'linux': 0.26; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'developing': 0.28; 'device': 0.28; 'command-line': 0.29; 'environment': 0.29; 'window': 0.30; 'probably': 0.31; 'everyone': 0.31; 'run': 0.33; 'changed': 0.33; 'environment,': 0.33; 'server': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'improving': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'depends': 0.36; 'heard': 0.36; 'tools,': 0.36; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; "won't": 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'forget': 0.60; 'show': 0.62; 'making': 0.62; 'between': 0.65; 'url:2014': 0.66; 'finally': 0.70; 'programs,': 0.72; 'url:10': 0.79; 'abandon': 0.84; 'console,': 0.84; 'interface:': 0.84; 'dennis': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Qsk7knnQbFYXJW6OmLDxW9qfobIR0YJlkWPKcMY+niY=; b=kCburFu3WsHsxuozBelc8UW927/NPJoa1hs9Rv51AtJawH2NSWNJ5MSoRUVCtKyBll P/v/+orrtYYW3Kpddq8FtchXwPS/3x5knVZRWBB37+35kUJuY+OWXMYyVJX5DDODzFTe VMwTJd7t2lrZM+pvLo0qbyPZyY5BWLFY/eCQe7O/BColNN8pblNU2StoNdrXy9eIWGoG tSZh6SJbiS4JNjjiUC8dSUn1sM6j0c7AURLaCM8c8chDbPwf+DhZNS50IH03gISnFGQQ l2w+NhKa+WULlLiNmZwJ+wQUW5zbejUTl9lnxWrg1+NEWXhsrzaFVxTIBTuHKhlvooaF hVvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Qsk7knnQbFYXJW6OmLDxW9qfobIR0YJlkWPKcMY+niY=; b=AsmbLX7U9wDotKIlM7MU/jocYAyAcujwWYF3i/AM/CJgVKkZ7k8qK8Z77nI6s7++CV Zpv4kzig464SOFYdVzvrwrSfvLQAvH/HeZXYPGh3nZn5GPTWP/Rr2W/WREfTUkJrn8CA mAsb+oTyNd712PzJ9Vnr7GwLnm2igBBUVm7gAo/yWIUyqVrO05NeuSLL7zTfWF6O9Y5s hRKu3TP0N3UHNYiRLaNYm/V2ec0zefye6tOAS8N8dw0Xv+yM5lO/sqJM6AF706idGZEY A/ARr8RfWivMbptDCvD0fkE2L4vH88Xp2S+NqP67/Ro50zGnDBEl0HmVPPd584batSZm 8cjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUrtVeBLfjnIMVR67CMJ9VaUKm+LRscafzhMEmeRTfUtd8ShsBUIjPX9zcntmOftr+AhXA0Cd3swG6UYQ== X-Received: by 10.107.10.87 with SMTP id u84mr32407521ioi.188.1460924680907; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:24:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr> <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr> <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:107196 On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 > declaimed the following: >> >>I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway. > > Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and making everyone > learn PowerShell ISE PowerShell ISE doesn't support interactive console applications. It runs console apps with a hidden console (conhost.exe) and sets the StandardOutput and StandardError to pipes. It leaves StandardInput set to the console input handle. If you run python.exe in this environment, you can use ctypes to show the console. Then enter commands in the console, and get the output in ISE. Or rebind sys.stdout and sys.stderr to \\.\CONOUT$ handles and forget about ISE, which is really only meant for developing PowerShell scripts. Microsoft won't abandon existing console programs, such as python.exe. The console system was fairly stagnant between NT 4 and Vista. In Windows 7, they changed how it interacts with a Windows session, by moving the server out of csrss.exe to multiple conhost.exe instances. In Windows 8, they reimplemented the API to use a kernel device driver, condrv.sys. For Windows 10, they've focused on improving the user interface: https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2014/10/07/ console-improvements-in-the-windows-10-technical-preview There's a new blog dedicated to Windows command-line tools, which should be the place to look for announcements about the console subsystem and the new Linux command-line environment that depends on the console: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline