Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.016 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'c++,': 0.07; 'memory.': 0.07; 'pointers': 0.09; 'scripting': 0.09; 'constitutes': 0.16; 'forth.': 0.16; 'from:addr:torriem': 0.16; 'from:name:michael torrie': 0.16; 'fulfil': 0.16; 'language?': 0.16; 'mapped': 0.16; 'objective-c,': 0.16; 'tables,': 0.16; 'java,': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'usability': 0.19; 'memory': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'days,': 0.24; 'driver': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'dos': 0.30; 'closer': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'embed': 0.31; 'pascal': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; 'mac': 0.33; 'candidate': 0.34; 'except': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'major': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'hardware': 0.61; 'mentioned': 0.61; 'new': 0.61; 'teaching': 0.64; 'computers': 0.72; 'serial': 0.72; 'felt': 0.74; 'subject:This': 0.74; 'interrupt': 0.84; 'me;': 0.84; 'technically': 0.84; 'stretch': 0.91; 'swift': 0.91; 'differences': 0.93 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:37:49 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20131118 Thunderbird/17.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: OT: This Swift thing References: <8738fjkc2w.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <53929baf$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1402162690 news.xs4all.nl 2973 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:40894 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:72919 On 06/07/2014 09:23 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On 07 Jun 2014 04:57:19 GMT, Steven D'Aprano > declaimed the following: > >> >> Swift is intended as a new generation *systems language*. The old >> generation of systems languages are things like C, Objective-C, C#, C++, >> Java, Pascal, Algol, and so forth. The new generation are intended to >> fulfil the same niches, but to have syntax and usability closer to that >> of scripting languages. Languages like Go, Rust, Ceylon, and now Swift. >> > Pascal as a systems language? We must have major differences what > constitutes a systems language then... > > Native Pascal had no features to support hitting the hardware or > arbitrary memory addresses/registers. It was a candidate for an > applications language (though even that always felt a stretch to me; as a > teaching language for structured programming it was ideal, though). Try > writing a serial port driver for a memory mapped I/O system using pure > Pascal. Technically C doesn't either, except via subroutines in libc, though C does have pointers which would be used to access memory. In the old MS DOS days, C would embed assembly to call interrupts and set up interrupt tables, etc. As someone else mentioned recently, Pascal was used as the system language on Mac computers for many years.