Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'ignoring': 0.09; 'pep': 0.09; 'subject:()': 0.09; 'worse': 0.09; 'stored': 0.10; 'cases': 0.15; 'dec': 0.15; '3.2,': 0.16; 'cares': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'non- english': 0.16; 'silly': 0.16; 'subject:3.3': 0.16; 'subject:unicode': 0.16; 'unfair': 0.16; 'utterly': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'thu,': 0.17; 'unicode': 0.17; '3.2': 0.22; "i've": 0.23; 'least': 0.25; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'am,': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'fixed': 0.28; 'actual': 0.28; 'character.': 0.29; 'represented': 0.29; 'thinks': 0.29; 'cases,': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'that,': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'compared': 0.35; 'received:209.85.220': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'enough': 0.36; 'optimization': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'performance': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'build': 0.39; 'space': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'most': 0.61; 'subject:, ': 0.61; 'containing': 0.61; '20,': 0.65; 'him,': 0.66; 'all;': 0.84; 'complaint': 0.84; 'moral': 0.84
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=afXpWQe1BoAyye+9zBx51b1oGFrM+Z2LxvtO+4sVf4k=; b=UMym3LgjkVzLqrBOfL29/JakuP0KClSp4Azse1UQrhgu060hOYNRB0yKTvE+Efs911 vO8nk+MHplLitVZ0aQj78GNx4/nizsVlucoqdec1679tSVPMauYzPIxV2SivyPOIlqgx IAfApMe85A74dsHJqa7pWcjjZF+4/YYL+REAQ/ZMg6/adxLLnpfkKNWzaH2FeIWcxpAb fJKlHuRty7K52DgVk55CUEEcwLKDGnfKLTpjsJBYYa4elGzoGxgi4t7/UWbPlulBBoHV qqJMA8ZrPMqCgYf4DbkfJsdD5tDYUAJkIKxQvMfzm6AvVHkmbm9Dqb7izqMkgDCWrx2I tExg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=jnj5LGcUXisj1U7bV_khfYrX+VH0BLswYoqX8bg9OpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2adb4a25-8ea3-441f-b8c0-ee6c87e4b19f@googlegroups.com> <kaslsb$iue$1@news.albasani.net> <CAPTjJmrLAe0i9rW6sCYkYBvpiPk2O=FHB0PgSq1dqNqh9Y7Zqg@mail.gmail.com> <CALwzid=jnj5LGcUXisj1U7bV_khfYrX+VH0BLswYoqX8bg9OpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 13:03:30 +1100
Subject: Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper()
From: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
To: python-list@python.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.1084.1355969013.29569.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1355969013 news.xs4all.nl 6847 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50952
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:35173

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> wrote:
> From what I've been able to discern, [jmf's] actual complaint about PEP
> 393 stems from misguided moral concerns.  With PEP-393, strings that
> can be fully represented in Latin-1 can be stored in half the space
> (ignoring fixed overhead) compared to strings containing at least one
> non-Latin-1 character.  jmf thinks this optimization is unfair to
> non-English users and immoral; he wants Latin-1 strings to be treated
> exactly like non-Latin-1 strings (I don't think he actually cares
> about non-BMP strings at all; if narrow-build Unicode is good enough
> for him, then it must be good enough for everybody).

Not entirely; most of his complaints are based on performance (speed
and/or memory) of 3.3 compared to a narrow build of 3.2, using silly
edge cases to prove how much worse 3.3 is, while utterly ignoring the
fact that, in those self-same edge cases, 3.2 is buggy.

ChrisA