Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'python,': 0.02; 'essentially': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'statically': 0.07; 'adopted': 0.09; 'obj': 0.09; 'typed': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; '(which,': 0.16; 'aiming': 0.16; 'argument.': 0.16; 'cleaner': 0.16; 'from:addr:torriem': 0.16; 'from:name:michael torrie': 0.16; 'stuff.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'all,': 0.19; 'bit': 0.19; 'app': 0.19; 'written': 0.21; 'saying': 0.22; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'comparing': 0.24; 'frameworks': 0.24; 'replace': 0.24; 'developers': 0.25; 'compiled': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'michael': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'thus': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'quite': 0.32; 'worked': 0.33; 'guess': 0.33; 'core': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.38; 'apple': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'major': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'future': 0.60; 'slowly': 0.60; "you'll": 0.62; 'bridge': 0.65; 'subject:This': 0.74; 'carries': 0.91; 'mean.': 0.91; 'niche': 0.91; 'niche.': 0.91; 'swift': 0.91; 'yourself,': 0.95 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:18:17 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20131118 Thunderbird/17.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: OT: This Swift thing References: <8738fjkc2w.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <53907FC4.3000105@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1401988709 news.xs4all.nl 2972 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38435 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:72734 On 06/05/2014 10:09 AM, Sturla Molden wrote: > On 05/06/14 16:33, Michael Torrie wrote: > > > In any case I'm a bit surprised by people comparing Python to Swift at > > all, implying that Python would have worked just as well and Apple > > should have chosen it to replace Objective C. > > Because if you look at the spec, Swift is essentially a statically typed > Python. I guess I'm not following your argument. Are you saying Swift should adopted Python syntax (similar to the .net language Boo) or are you saying Apple should have adopted Python instead? > Swift and Python will also be used in the same niche. C will still be > used for low-level stuff. Swift is not a replacement for C. It's a > replacement for Objective-C. No they won't be used in the same niche. Objective C is certainly not used in the same niche as Python, so why would Swift? I don't expect to see any major OS X app written completely in Python, nor would I expect and of the core frameworks to be written in Python. They will be written in Swift however. > > Swift provides a cleaner system > > for developers to work in than Obj C did (which, by the way has > > reference counting), but carries on the same object model that > > developers are used to (and existing frameworks use). > > That is what PyObjC does as well. Not quite what I mean. As you said yourself, Swift is aiming to replace ObjC. Thus core system frameworks will slowly be replaced over time with frameworks written in Swift (binary, compiled frameworks). So you'll be using PySwift in the future instead of PyObjC, which should be an easy bridge to create since the object model is not changing.