Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.019
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'allowed.': 0.07; 'defines': 0.07; 'python': 0.09; 'itself,': 0.09; 'subject:()': 0.09; 'url:unicode': 0.09; 'dec': 0.15; "skip:' 30": 0.15; '*always*': 0.16; 'posted.': 0.16; 'subject:3.3': 0.16; 'subject:unicode': 0.16; 'unicode.': 0.16; 'uppercase': 0.16; 'worst': 0.16; 'wed,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; '8bit%:3': 0.17; 'unicode': 0.17; '>>>': 0.18; '(or': 0.18; 'example': 0.23; 'this:': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; '(see': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'correct': 0.28; '>>>>': 0.29; 'case,': 0.29; 'probably': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; 'implement': 0.32; "skip:' 20": 0.32; 'could': 0.32; 'says': 0.33; 'handle': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'acceptable': 0.35; 'false': 0.35; 'mapping': 0.35; 'problem,': 0.35; 'doing': 0.35; 'pm,': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'received:209': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'sure': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'link': 0.60; 'subject:, ': 0.61; 'map': 0.61; 'personally': 0.61; 'information': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'behavior': 0.64; 'subject.': 0.65; 'wish': 0.70; 'url:jsp': 0.71; 'url:a': 0.72; 'hand': 0.82; '"das': 0.84; 'grosse': 0.84; 'to:name:python': 0.84
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DO8IML44KCfnBT/WIspbc49SSZFxrMyc0WjTMcw0fqs=; b=yjh70GBjWf6/RK8/v0GjBPBOydCTb7YyRtMHTgvso33UWJzRua39iph6ohLlkFV/fA 0Yw6DQCMj9Mk+cqJYnnQM2W6LdSnDTkrYcqcTQJvA2hMkveDfmq8DGOV2pcigCkxRi4P EAlKrtMPjFCGcvyc9W18wniovk60NqKnFnqPs6feDEv2L/ehTsVa1UE72XpXbBgYjj5I +Woo9hVAq+Abcp13FiIyF+kG6aIx/Q/JwtqwoXmeE5Ur/A14Nb9iC5YpCSfxTL+HLxW7 KeOaODrlqMzwzq6/59qg/PAXOzq1k0nE8kt0oDpR/ZFyynp1EiAuOQnYDB5q8TGh2wI7 CsQQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <890ee58d-e93e-42ac-b17e-59b05c6ecacb@googlegroups.com>
References: <2adb4a25-8ea3-441f-b8c0-ee6c87e4b19f@googlegroups.com> <mailman.1051.1355928746.29569.python-list@python.org> <890ee58d-e93e-42ac-b17e-59b05c6ecacb@googlegroups.com>
From: Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:23:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Py 3.3, unicode / upper()
To: Python <python-list@python.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.1074.1355952227.29569.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 53
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1355952227 news.xs4all.nl 6947 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:44103
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:35159

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:55 PM,  <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, it is correct (or can be considered as correct).
> I do not wish to discuss the typographical problematic
> of "Das Grosse Eszett". The web is full of pages on the
> subject. However, I never succeeded to find an "official
> position" from Unicode. The best information I found seem
> to indicate (to converge), U+1E9E is now the "supported"
> uppercase form of U+00DF. (see DIN).

Is this link not official?

http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=3D00DF

That defines a full uppercase mapping to SS and a simple uppercase
mapping to U+00DF itself, not U+1E9E.  My understanding of the simple
mapping is that it is not allowed to map to multiple characters,
whereas the full mapping is so allowed.

> What is bothering me, is more the implementation. The Unicode
> documentation says roughly this: if something can not be
> honoured, there is no harm, but do not implement a workaroud.
> In that case, I'm not sure Python is doing the best.

But this behavior is per the specification, not a workaround.  I think
the worst thing we could do in this regard would be to start diverging
from the specification because we think we know better than the
Unicode Consortium.


> If "wrong", this can be considered as programmatically correct
> or logically acceptable (Py3.2)
>
>>>> 'Stra=DFe'.upper().lower().capitalize() =3D=3D 'Stra=DFe'
> True
>
> while this will *always* be problematic (Py3.3)
>
>>>> 'Stra=DFe'.upper().lower().capitalize() =3D=3D 'Stra=DFe'
> False

On the other hand (Py3.2):

>>> 'Stra=DFe'.upper().isupper()
False

vs. Py3.3:

>>> 'Stra=DFe'.upper().isupper()
True

There is probably no one clearly correct way to handle the problem,
but personally this contradiction bothers me more than the example
that you posted.