Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder5.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'talks': 0.03; 'output': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'python3': 0.07; 'bytes,': 0.09; 'bytes.': 0.09; 'lost.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'strings.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; 'camp': 0.16; 'imposing': 0.16; 'influential': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'input': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; 'byte': 0.24; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'second': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'unix': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'apparently': 0.31; 'helpful.': 0.31; 'subject:some': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'linux': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'users': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'consists': 0.60; 'first': 0.61; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'world': 0.66; 'received:109': 0.72; 'power': 0.76; 'try.': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Robin Becker Subject: Re: Python 3.2 has some deadly infection Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 16:37:23 +0100 References: <538a8f48$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <538bcfff$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <538C5BB8.1020702@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk> <538f1a61$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <53902bb1$0$11109$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <87wqcvu20h.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <7b3543f6-6f62-49c5-abdc-e2783fd6d629@googlegroups.com> <87oay7tnxt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 109.174.168.73 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 In-Reply-To: <87oay7tnxt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1401982699 news.xs4all.nl 2840 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:72712 On 05/06/2014 15:45, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Rustom Mody : > >> What Marko is saying is that by imposing the structuring of unicode on >> the outside (Unix) world of text=byte, significant power is lost. > > Mostly I'm saying Python3 will not be able to hide the fact that linux > data consists of bytes. It shouldn't even try. The linux OS outside the > Python process talks bytes, not strings. > > A different OS might have different assumptions. > > > Marko > I think I'm in the unix camp as well. I just think that an extra assumption on input output isn't always helpful. In python 3 byte strings are second class which I think is wrong; apparently pressure from influential users is pushing to make byte strings more first class which is a good thing. -- Robin Becker