Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.011 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'assignment': 0.07; 'comment,': 0.09; 'etc).': 0.09; 'happens.': 0.09; 'someone,': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'boards': 0.16; 'braces,': 0.16; 'editor,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'gained': 0.16; 'notation': 0.16; 'precede': 0.16; 'followed': 0.16; 'so.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'thu,': 0.19; 'translated': 0.19; 'written': 0.21; 'code,': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'instance,': 0.24; 'mathematical': 0.24; 'tend': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; 'possibly': 0.26; 'this:': 0.26; 'values': 0.27; 'gets': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'michael': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'comments': 0.31; 'easier': 0.31; 'dropped': 0.31; 'indentation': 0.31; 'allows': 0.31; 'run': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'text': 0.33; 'becomes': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'style': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'screen': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'basic': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'version': 0.36; 'really': 0.36; 'similar': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'sometimes': 0.38; 'auto': 0.38; 'structure': 0.39; 'expression': 0.60; 'flat': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'lost': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'show': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'facilities': 0.69; 'fact,': 0.69; 'sharing': 0.69; 'subject:This': 0.74; 'paper': 0.75; '1:00': 0.84; 'psuedo-code': 0.84; 'refuses': 0.84; 'room.': 0.84; 'seriously,': 0.84; 'stubbornly': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92; 'lot,': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=HgU3fgtqpEF8M9svmFz8yKTHxZ5Se/Bv5jQqjbUEo1U=; b=EutET6my+ze1VxTU85CBokoyaExCywnlXEm4K3SaVk5n/n7urchooNSjGUS+Vjn/zf aQ5H+nMs+a/0eU9wOGLzllXha0GHCNy/NdThdLeRRclu7E3I+SY5thIBLFTplK92Svf7 dq/iDZ8KcnRacQX6w5W8sodqNrvu0jG7gEjcptkwZ8hOVx8xNVcaKO9AVDxn9TxoSOAR WxfzHeygyesdy8kxT1TJy5Kw7O5a4I7H+VcX0T8jZqNWYHvY6LHyRRuaCJEdfk8DzZsz nVY1+n1B2DkKAjMxHpKgesnNBIKzZpbGzQrOWa611MBF+Y08Ge/4gQUKnAbuE0QVkbR6 MylQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.237.199 with SMTP id ve7mr3170023vec.66.1401895575314; Wed, 04 Jun 2014 08:26:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <538F3493.6040102@gmail.com> References: <34564700423508781.788278sturla.molden-gmail.com@news.gmane.org> <538F3493.6040102@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:26:15 +1000 Subject: Re: OT: This Swift thing From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 42 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1401895577 news.xs4all.nl 2858 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:72644 On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 1:00 AM, Michael Torrie wrote: > Do programmers not psuedo-code on paper or white boards anymore? I pseudocode in a text editor, these days. Sometimes that pseudocode gets reworked into code; more often it becomes comments that precede the code (which may or may not get dropped once the code's working). "Executable pseudo-code" is all very well as a concept, but there's an awful lot that I can write down that doesn't run as Python. For instance, Python stubbornly insists that assignment be written like this: x = expression and flat out refuses to accept this: 4*x*x + 3*x + y + 50 = (x*y + z) * (x + z) I mean honestly. I've translated all the mathematical notation into programming style (asterisks for multiplication, etc). Why can't Python take the values for y and z and give me back a value for x? But seriously, this is the sort of thing that will most likely end up as a comment, followed by the solved-for-x version (which will quite possibly not be a single line of code, with something this complicated - especially as there could be multiple solutions or no solutions). And that transformation isn't really much easier in Python than any other language with similar mathematical facilities (I used to do this sort of thing in REXX back in the 90s). For the basic structure of the code (which is where Python *does* look more like pseudo-code), I tend to write actual code straight away; in a good editor, you can write C/Java/Pike/etc code with auto indentation if you put in your braces, so there's no advantage to leaving them off (as there would be on a whiteboard). Have we lost something by not working on whiteboards? I don't think so. In fact, we've gained a lot, because I can pull up an editor, share my screen with someone, and show my work directly as it happens. A whiteboard allows that only if the two people are physically sharing a room. ChrisA