Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages,': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.04; 'parameter': 0.05; 'python:': 0.05; 'statistical': 0.05; 'terry': 0.07; 'typed': 0.07; 'bind': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229.12': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'received:lo.gmane.org': 0.09; 'sun,': 0.09; 'described': 0.14; 'defined': 0.15; '"m"': 0.16; 'bieber': 0.16; 'columns': 0.16; 'declaimed': 0.16; 'declaration,': 0.16; 'email addr:ix.netcom.com': 0.16; 'email name:wlfraed': 0.16; 'expression)': 0.16; 'from:addr:ix.netcom.com': 0.16; 'from:addr:wlfraed': 0.16; 'from:name:dennis lee bieber': 0.16; 'received:66.245': 0.16; 'received:dsl.mindspring.com': 0.16; 'received:mindspring.com': 0.16; 'received:wlfraed': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'result;': 0.16; 'stack;': 0.16; 'url:netcom': 0.16; 'url:wlfraed': 0.16; 'user-defined': 0.16; 'wulfraed': 0.16; 'anonymous': 0.16; 'argument': 0.16; 'language': 0.20; 'programming': 0.20; 'lee': 0.22; '(and': 0.22; 'meeting': 0.23; 'somehow': 0.23; 'typically': 0.24; 'memory': 0.24; 'url:home': 0.25; 'define': 0.26; 'subject:data': 0.26; 'object': 0.27; 'pass': 0.27; 'subject:?': 0.29; 'class': 0.29; 'bound': 0.29; 'functions.': 0.29; "python's": 0.29; 'recall': 0.31; 'match': 0.31; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.32; 'created': 0.33; 'reference': 0.34; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.34; 'difference': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'put': 0.35; 'routine': 0.35; 'subject:What': 0.35; 'subject:use': 0.35; 'rather': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'data': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'refer': 0.37; 'but': 0.38; 'received:org': 0.38; 'room': 0.39; 'holding': 0.39; 'set': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'could': 0.39; 'header:Mime- Version:1': 0.39; 'basic': 0.40; 'would': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'storage': 0.60; 'design': 0.61; '2011': 0.62; 'ever': 0.65; 'met': 0.67; 'dennis': 0.68; 'evaluate': 0.72; 'aspects:': 0.84; 'subject:other': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Dennis Lee Bieber Subject: Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 00:28:15 -0700 Organization: > Bestiaria Support Staff < References: <4dbd1dbf$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: user-11fa6fk.dsl.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 X-No-Archive: YES X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.94.164.166 X-Trace: 1304321303 news.xs4all.nl 81475 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:39485 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:4449 On Sun, 01 May 2011 15:10:11 -0400, Terry Reedy declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general: > Or Fortran or Basic (and I suspect, but do not know, Algol) and other > descendents: Ada?, PL/1?). In statistical languages, user-defined names > typically refer to typed data columns (eash a set of storage locations) > or user-defined functions. > As I recall from my programming language design class (only and intro, it was so small we met in a meeting room rather than classroom), ALGOL was described as "call by name"; somehow the supplied argument was "plugged into" the parameter usages... So if one did something like call X(a+3) and the routine was define as X(m) ever use of "m" in the routine evaluated the "a+3" /at that time/... Unlike most other language which would evaluate "a+3" in the caller's space and (FORTRAN: pass a reference to an anonymous memory space holding the result; C: put the result itself on the stack; Python: bind "m" to the object created by evaluating the expression) > You defined Python's 'data model' as having two aspects: 'name binding' > and 'call by object'. A language could match one but not the other. I From my viewpoint -- there is no difference in Python... The parameter name, defined in the routine declaration, is bound to the object given as the argument in the call... -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/