Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 11:01:42 +1000 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <573EC62F.4090401@lucidity.plus.com> <573f9322$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5741cde9$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <57422e03$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de nwUn+O+e+S3PxdN3H2EguQOSwN1lJ/gVGQVzv96C12Yw== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.028 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.94; '*S*': 0.00; 'correct.': 0.07; 'defines': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'subject:while': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'languages.': 0.15; 'mathematics': 0.15; 'result.': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; '23,': 0.16; 'argument.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'subject:make': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'circular': 0.18; '>>>': 0.20; 'library': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'not,': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'import': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'defining': 0.27; 'arithmetic': 0.29; 'division': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'functional': 0.32; 'returned': 0.32; 'point': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'requirement.': 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'symbol': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'necessary.': 0.35; 'received:74.125.82': 0.35; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'expect': 0.37; 'beyond': 0.37; 'requirement': 0.37; "won't": 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'software': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'no.': 0.62; 'subject: / ': 0.63; 'world': 0.64; 'today': 0.65; '4000+': 0.84; 'bored': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'conversation': 0.84; 'divide': 0.84; 'proves': 0.84; 'subject:else': 0.84; 'subject:sense': 0.84; 'yours': 0.89; 'to:none': 0.91; 'imagine': 0.96 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=OTeHEYYKbgetqfTUsid4ev9QSFEuUVi598iR87rv/Z0=; b=MdD5moidKbB/u3/lGUKF8GJRez4sSCjuQZxTIWHb8KvEzEKoRLKFDFChAMvEmLjYyx IVHf7H9krbGaDsx+mydzwjK2vGwAu+/AAOhDhNDKieVtkzm4cmq+DCTRxqUIYvbiRAX8 DZRHuwbT9RKWeDfKnnc6CVsJAaJglrH04Qe/6g/efjRhx+SzHitvQVlmuZA+18oG7S1V Ttx3T9SFdA9U8dll64wMZBPzYRx/D5zMZ1gLKnGkLbC2XkuFfkhMEj+pEK2n4ZTwnp5J d73wy7DoMMYZ1MTFtsnsevM6q3gDhKNGLW+PMRRPq9cDRmm8+qwyPb1WKM0MtezQkQbd ujiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=OTeHEYYKbgetqfTUsid4ev9QSFEuUVi598iR87rv/Z0=; b=AqZoFrTbFTxAJPV5Wk8/3BDUUJ3SCnGwhYTa8HJY96BgV4c2ZLYsHhN3VSV1JMSBWI YG0a4NF4K23JVghN1cR8pWif/RzczgDXiKCIksPk065a+0ilPvYoJ0/0aBVKrWFpkWRF mgdoH1nfIUpT83B3FGq2w1UR3K8HdTF9SBtNbF0pHOgJRrrepXwO1UEWuqZQSd9yp65f NLFjFUkEvwdPRMsbgRHM6ml5W7ldMSOLLO1atIMI58QDU9Nn8E3WyvZD7eAYSyJakM5d keOUJXCsM4ZnP29Z+hhS0YZbsBC6TgTZiuZT+es50qWpVaUAiC3n8/GhbZ8wf0LcSfIS 21qw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUiCLFt0l6WiTXsc+v2IXV8eDzahvPjvrNwurnxp0eBxg5QUNC8TfBFA/6eGQUgH0Yogk6QoH/bcsKa+g== X-Received: by 10.194.86.129 with SMTP id p1mr13542021wjz.117.1463965302533; Sun, 22 May 2016 18:01:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <573EC62F.4090401@lucidity.plus.com> <573f9322$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5741cde9$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <57422e03$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:108969 On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On 2016-05-22, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> On Mon, 23 May 2016 01:52 am, Jon Ribbens wrote: >>> On 2016-05-22, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>>> How is this any better though? Complicated or not, people want to divide >>>> 1 by 2 and get 0.5. That is the functional requirement. Furthermore, they >>>> want to use the ordinary division symbol / rather than having to import >>>> some library or call a function. >>> >>> That's a circular argument. You're defining the result as the >>> requirement and then saying that proves the result is necessary. >>> Clearly, people managed when 1/2 returned 0, and continue to do so >>> today in Python 2 and other languages. >> >> I'm not defining the result. 4000+ years of mathematics defines the result. > > OK, I'm bored of you now. You clearly are not willing to imagine > a world beyond your own preconceptions. I am not saying that my view > is right, I'm just saying that yours is not automatically correct. > If you won't even concede that much then this conversation is pointless. The point of arithmetic in software is to do what mathematics defines. Would you expect 1+2 to return 5? No. Why not? Where was the result defined? ChrisA