Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Promoting Python Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:20:26 +1000 Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Vd8qiw0TRMM8dJWxzjombQGjPd1u1VT2xkvWz5rohDNg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'broken': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'completeness': 0.05; 'guido': 0.05; 'memory.': 0.05; 'executed': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'already.': 0.09; 'mess': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'stack': 0.13; 'interpreter': 0.15; 'thu,': 0.15; '"while"': 0.16; '(mainly': 0.16; '2016': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'mythical': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'valid.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.16; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'machine': 0.21; 'assumes': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'implemented': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; "doesn't": 0.26; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'tail': 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'anyone': 0.32; 'implement': 0.32; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'there': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'some': 0.40; 'side': 0.62; 'removal': 0.79; 'chrisa': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'seriously,': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=/gvByAN7UPOb1uncujn+oK1SR6tuqvTKWbc+Fv5jNfo=; b=s7bqdSfOwSCP6T/CpZlbFnXjCHagIOw60PdTMhgbPba9Q72OcUMymiyNOnyYBkGHyU YPxDHMKLHPRxhO6OMt/YbM0L/MirP6ULurg0pefhkeJondXCFMdadx/2rzatdz5FNzIt u1wp5TLp+w3amr9ZBNTh5jduyYwCNC5jticYkh/+wM6o7MRCD5o6mwoqxAw2FK9kxob8 jahj3PAGmKsUBjmHKcpEA3U9QoKpujNaAVlnG+xFgjE7Gu8ODIc1lKway0ZOueYNvwKE aj+KDcIRcAT83XXeBsYnIMkECnDUPQOPw9SZmP5FNrL2Zn3WXbxRxyChPoqNtkN8X67u SI/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=/gvByAN7UPOb1uncujn+oK1SR6tuqvTKWbc+Fv5jNfo=; b=M2HSffaDvCF1WF+2uu/uiMxrA5zsoKkvipesCprCOdn7Uut2rzkfwFEG8LSRkKnvRK 8ehv2pmulZN9m1StFYdUP6TD2VXVXO09v9MtrUsbx/wauaz29XM1T0ufFxgAHqSVVevm hC9ebdDdSPoNiSAR04TccEQOmZ4dr91iTBaNSMrxksxDS4IAQY8KjLxwnMFxa219QnSH Bkl3FPHXeqqOOZeolK73PFX47DlTVg5x4W1wcJiYKICiaoZN9eN2A23LIUHqg1E/6jvr 5xMRX/UIddiiwRjUvk0iVInxLqRmd/Znun+Nnb3X90Y+0B+ExH7jpfv9rvnYxl+1p7St FGmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJINYKfAQXj2jqcXhnzlt1K9B33W+MtPrA423jAhcVT5fW6kV25j0yjRgRT6+cO03SkjjLSWlwuhPJ5wiA== X-Received: by 10.50.23.80 with SMTP id k16mr24104422igf.94.1459952426845; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 07:20:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:106583 On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Seriously, Python wouldn't be, couldn't be Turing-complete without > "while" (mainly because it doesn't support tail-recursion elimination). Side point: Turing completeness actually assumes a mythical Turing machine with infinite memory. So Python could be implemented without tail call elimination, executed on a machine with infinite stack space, and would only need removal of sys.*recursion_limit, and it'd be valid. The *language* isn't broken because of that. Plus, anyone could implement a Python interpreter with TCE. There might well be some out there already. The only issue is that you'd mess with tracebacks, so Guido doesn't want it. ChrisA