Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Ben Finney Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:05:32 +1100 Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <64a6599c-fae1-469d-bcee-875165b3cc7d@googlegroups.com> <56d294f8$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <62084c14-abd1-4214-af08-70ce8449c83e@googlegroups.com> <6dq5db5j0hg2evl7t334ftdm5sk8n5itge@4ax.com> <93t5db9sib9ldgktrt7523fnis4tgq2uev@4ax.com> <9064f06c-cbd5-4bf4-98d7-24bed0e78c10@googlegroups.com> <90f65ae1-c3d8-4a36-bc9f-860403a0633c@googlegroups.com> <56d39335$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de /hgUXcvWHvyNl+G5crsK9A4sZAuLL9x7QmNrxh+gFPow== Cancel-Lock: sha1:qJA/r9kD4kkaSX/SuGc2UADYwLc= Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'file)': 0.07; 'permissions': 0.07; 'semantic': 0.07; 'tool,': 0.07; 'encoding.': 0.09; 'filesystem': 0.09; 'here?': 0.09; 'must,': 0.09; 'permissions.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; '\xe2\x80\x94': 0.09; 'encoding': 0.15; '(e.g.)': 0.16; "file's": 0.16; 'hmm.': 0.16; 'imo,': 0.16; 'metadata.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'slave': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'changes': 0.20; 'file.': 0.22; '(like': 0.23; 'unlike': 0.23; 'examples': 0.24; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; "doesn't": 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'least': 0.27; 'record': 0.29; 'closer': 0.29; 'complain': 0.29; 'reflected': 0.29; "i'd": 0.31; 'maybe': 0.33; 'changed': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'changing': 0.34; 'file': 0.34; 'that,': 0.34; 'text': 0.35; 'expected': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'data.': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'data': 0.39; 'whatever': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'skip:u 10': 0.61; 'office': 0.62; 'ending': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'hours': 0.65; 'between': 0.65; 'boss': 0.66; 'content,': 0.66; 'past,': 0.66; "they're": 0.66; '\xe2\x80\x93': 0.72; 'presented': 0.72; '_o__)': 0.84; 'a.m.': 0.84; 'agree?': 0.84; 'athens': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jigong.madmonks.org X-Public-Key-ID: 0xAC128405 X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 517C F14B B2F3 98B0 CB35 4855 B8B2 4C06 AC12 8405 X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-pubkey.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:103669 Steven D'Aprano writes: > Changing line endings is neither a structural nor a semantic change to > the content of the file. It's effectively metadata, not data. Hmm. Unlike other examples you give (like filesystem permissions on the file) the line endings *are* content in the file. You may say they're metadata, and maybe there's a case for that; I think that doesn't stop line endings in the file from being content — and changes to those are changes to content. I'd say “what line ending style is in use” is closer to the information about text encoding. Yes, it is metadata; it is *also* content, because a change to the text encoding must be reflected as a change to the file's content. The same is not true for (e.g.) filesystem permissions. I would say that a change to the text encoding in the file should be reflected as a change to the file content, and presented as such by the VCS. Do you agree? Whatever your answer to that, I would be interested to know whether you think the answer should be different for line ending changes. > Who is the boss here? The user of the tool, or the tool? We are unfortunately a slave to decisions made long in the past, to record some metadata – line endings, text encoding – as in-band content rather than out-of-band pure metadata. The VCS must, IMO, be at least aware that the content has changed when those in-band data change. -- \ “Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the | `\ hours of 9 and 11 a.m. daily.” —hotel, Athens | _o__) | Ben Finney