X-Received: by 10.224.19.78 with SMTP id z14mr2784035qaa.4.1361934784633; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:13:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.49.1.162 with SMTP id 2mr48499qen.2.1361934784615; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:13:04 -0800 (PST) Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!t2no5294817qal.0!news-out.google.com!t2ni1780qaj.0!nntp.google.com!dd2no3391668qab.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:13:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=70.196.64.148; posting-account=h3aEwQoAAACiuqX-oR3gvCVFm8lLHoWj NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.196.64.148 References: <512cb0a0$0$30001$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <57fd0b09-b30d-4e62-845a-aac198113a40@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <54967758-e84c-4b9c-a09c-10fbdbec230f@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? From: Rick Johnson Injection-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 03:13:04 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:40028 On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:48:51 PM UTC-6, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 2/26/2013 1:52 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: > >=20 > > [...snip legit complaint...] > >=20 > Have you opened an issue, or checked for existing issue? I would be open= =20 > to the idea that entries like that for int should not be overly type=20 > specific and imply that the defaults are the only possibilities. Terry (with all due respect), do you /really/ expect that people have the t= ime to open an issue on the bug tracker? Do you really think that everyone = who uses python even knows about the bug tracker? Do you really think that = people will believe that their opinion is worthy of placing on the bug trac= ker? Do you really? I think most will just end up ignoring the docs and either be forced to giv= e up on Python or look for documentation elsewhere. Now, you could react to= that truth by saying: "Well, who cares! The docs are the docs and if people can't grok them then= too bad for them because i think they are awesome." Sadly (in actuality) it's too bad for *you* Terry (along with the many othe= r people who maintain docs) when you ignore the many request for changes. R= emember, if people just ignore the docs because of these abominations you a= nd everyone else are basically wasting your time maintaining the docs! Do y= ou understand this fact? Terry Implies: "We will write the docs how *we* see fit, and to hell with y= our feeble misunderstandings. You are beneath us! *We* are the anointed one= s. *We* know everything!" =20 Look i know your intentions are noble, and yes my wording was a bit theatri= cally unfair, but this is /exactly/ how people are interpreting your intent= ions Terry. Please don't become a zealot. Python will never be perfect! I c= an assure you. And besides, is a bug tracker /really/ the place to voice the many legitima= te problems concerning python's documentation or stdlib? Forgive me, but I = thought bug trackers where for tracking ,umm... well, BUGS!=20 This is why i mentioned the need for an official "PyWarts" (group or list) = so these folks will have a platform to voice their frustrations. A very PUB= LIC and very ACCESSIBLE and very WELL KNOWN platform. Because if IS NOT all= three of these things, then it IS nothing. But you cannot just hand them a microphone and then stick your fingers in y= our ears. You need to /listen/ carefully and try to place yourself into the= ir shoes. I can assure you that the Python docs, and the language itself, c= ould use some polishing. Stop taking these complaints personally and start = listening with an objective ear; please?