Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gene Wirchenko Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:07:11 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: <16j7d7h73h2qvp70e52801gnjdre709jc3@4ax.com> <2fl7d7djdq6cpho3qfqmckjt7h2rjbagg6@4ax.com> <7dlad7pqi9q6uq5u8gmq16q436ugu40r99@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="JCn9+dUdCQH+ycRezr2Sxw"; logging-data="17517"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19HNZfTMVBYO5uc99i3AugmQO5XS0mWWFY=" X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 Cancel-Lock: sha1:VgasKJ+by8ZEcbAA55oSTbu5x1E= Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:10341 On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:04:53 -0800, Roedy Green wrote: >On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:44:16 -0800, Gene Wirchenko >wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > >> >> Yes, there is. If a client asks for something unusual, he should >>pay for all time involved. Obviously, there can be a fine line here. >>I have, on occasion, char > >Sure he should pay, but to play fair, you build that cost into the >fixed price bid. It is not his fault if you get in over your head. Why have a fixed price bid? This just invites trouble if the spec is not firm. I would go with frequent deliverables. >He should pay less that he would pay hiring someone experienced, not >more. You should not be rewarded for incompetence. Non sequitur. I can easily imagine someone being hired where other consideration are more important than immediate technical competence. Some examples: 1) The person may be local. 2) The person may know the rest of the client's systems very well and need this knowledge to be effective. 3) The person is trustworthy. 4) Bragging rights: "I was Jo[e] NotANewbieNow's first client!" >By analogy think of an incompetent plumber who takes far more time >than one who knows what his he doing. Why should you pay for the >newbie? Why not? And youmight be paying less. >You pay to go to school. When you get out, you expect people to pay >you. I think there should be a more gradual transition, when you work >for free, where the customer does you a favour knowing the work may >take way to long or be of inferior quality, or you make take up more >of his time, then to lower wage, eventually to full wage when you can >produce the same quality and speed as the experienced programmers. Mr. Green, you live in British Columbia so you probably heard about the training wage that the Liberals brought in. That got widely abused. And you are proposing someone work for free? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko