Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!usenet.ukfsn.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Gregorie Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: "Hello world!" without a public class? Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 21:46:08 +0000 (UTC) Organization: UK Free Software Network Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <-8CdnaTS2P6a5HTNnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@bt.com> <8f48da51-0eac-42cf-ab1e-f44b3cefac01@googlegroups.com> <50e99d08$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <50e9e826$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.45.235.129 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: localhost.localdomain 1357508768 8911 84.45.235.129 (6 Jan 2013 21:46:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@localhost.localdomain NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 21:46:08 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Pan/0.139 (Sexual Chocolate; GIT bf56508 git://git.gnome.org/pan2) Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:21079 On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:09:58 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > I agree that text editor and command line tools are important to (see > post I made after the one you replied to). > Yep, saw it a post or few later. > But when they have learned the basics, then they know what is under the > carpet and should start utilizing the benefits of the IDE. > No argument with this, though I'd add that it should be easier to move between IDEs if you know the underlying stuff than if you don't - and its unlikely that anybody will use just the one IDE. > And people know sophisticated GUI's from other applications. > True. However, if Java is their first programming language (and this is the target audience for this thread) its unlikely that they'll have used an IDE with a similar complexity or density of displayed information. I'd rate programming IDEs and CAD systems as having the most complex GUIs I've used by a fair margin, with graphical apps (e.g. the GIMP, Paintshop Pro or Lview) coming next. Everything else, ranging from the Audacity mixing desk through SQL tools such as Embarcadero Rapid SQL are much simpler: little more complex than a decent graphical text editor or Libre Office/Office. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |