Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!usenet.ukfsn.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Gregorie Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Arrays in java Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Organization: UK Free Software Network Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <2323c0cd-d843-460b-b39d-d14be0928eff@googlegroups.com> <5bvrv7l6m37aha6n3ri5giatrarpeb6boe@4ax.com> <80b9a66d-0b65-435b-adbb-3e61c83c6a54@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.45.235.129 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: localhost.localdomain 1342646692 13009 84.45.235.129 (18 Jul 2012 21:24:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@localhost.localdomain NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:24:52 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:16086 On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:03:54 -0700, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > Lew wrote: > ... >> I started using the JLS very early in my Java career, and it has never >> given me cause to regret that choice. > > I feel the same way, but that is irrelevant because of my prior > experience. Was the start of your Java career also the very first time > you had ever attempted to write a computer program? > > Some colleges are using Java as the first language for their freshman > computer science students, and teaching it as one of the first courses. > That means there are teenagers trying to learn Java who have no idea > what a formal grammar is, or how it works. > My first language was Algol 60[*], so of course I rapidly became familiar with BNF notation, since all Algol 60 manuals included the BNF-defined syntax as an appendix. Consequently, I more or less expect any language's syntax to be described fairly formally, preferably by using BNF or at least the tram-track diagrams that Pascal introduced. [*] I learned Algol 60 at University as an add-on to my MSc because I needed to use our Elliott 503 to analyse output from the Moessbauer spectrometer I was using as part of my thesis. >> I also assert that it isn't anywhere near as impossible as all the >> fear- >> mongers claim, except in some few parts. Regardless, I respect your >> conclusions, even the ones with which I disagree. >> >> Bottom line, I go with something like glen herrmannsfeldt's idea, that >> for each Java programmer there comes a time when it makes sense to use >> the JLS. The earlier one knows that the JLS option exists, the more >> power one has to exercise choice over gaining that next, >> minimum level of Java programming capability. >> >> > I think the word "minimum" is where we disagree. I think one can become > a very competent Java programmer without having read the JLS. > > Patricia -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |