Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Lew Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:09:08 -0700 Organization: albasani.net Lines: 54 Message-ID: References: <4fca25a2$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4fdd504e$0$287$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.albasani.net PpgEIwwIFU8bcA5t9s3Gkgmmv/ay99AlYaXbJoZTB4vneqISpgetSJqqOfaG7lTMnbcPrkSCbUl+4D4DXqPVYkPDD4Ddvhztl2Nq06DuIGjMMVOFjGMLMph8fk1O5Gv6 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 06:08:46 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.albasani.net; logging-data="AFXjcKLVjoBZ6BuOaNnzptruFiLeGYdhog8h6CaFmTgL1FVSYFEHfz4An18nfWCuDC+H4sEPJgE9hu1DEvAQPShZv75BrAZdge9aniBZiDVgYs23uY0ORJ7lWTWyYCdR"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@albasani.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 In-Reply-To: Cancel-Lock: sha1:nDu0rITogkuv5iUhae7p6jo92dQ= Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:15573 On 06/24/2012 05:02 PM, Mike Schilling wrote: > "Arne Vajh�j" wrote in message > news:4fdd504e$0$287$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... >>> >>> They rebranded it and changed certain things, improving them with some >>> of the non-compliant enhancements they'd given J++, and more. >>> >>> So the lineage is direct. >> >> I don't think rebranded is accurate. >> >> I don't think J++ and .NET share any code and should be considered >> two very distinct projects. >> >> But obviously a MS "Java" and a MS Java-like language like C# >> must have shared some IP. > > I think it's fair to say something like the following: > > * The J++ extensions to Java (delegates, events) were on the list of .NET > runtime features. > * J# was built on top of the .NET runtime, using ideas but probably little > code from J++ > * J# was intended as an upgrade path for J++ users, so some attention was > paid to backward compatibility, but it wasn't completely compatible C#, .Net and the related languages and tools make a lot of sense in Microsoft terms, if you're coming up from, say, a Visual Studio background. I can't speak for MS, but I tried J++ a little bit when it came out, and I've read white papers here and there, and I've spent a little reading time on C# and .Net, though I've never used them. .Net and the CLR are what something like what anything "JVM-like" would have to be in order to be of use in the Microsoft universe. Part of the falling out between Java (Sun) and J++/C# (MS) was a language philosophy holy war. Delegates and later first-class functions are a handy distinction, but the Java folks thought them too heavy and redundant given the then-recent introduction of nested types which did the job of delegates without a whole new mechanism, just classes and interfaces. Unfortunately for Java, things like first-class functions, primitive objects ('int' with properties and methods) are popular with programmers and are useful to many. They don't seem to have harmed the MS world much, nor have unmanaged code and some other things, but then C# is designed for a particular environment. Java on purpose is leaner, easier to port between platforms and devoid of certain goodies. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg