Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jeff Higgins Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Newbie needing advice Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:28:55 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 80 Message-ID: References: <7fb27b6b-a974-49ea-b252-c043cfd81fc4@z17g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:22:22 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="lN5NBsxb/Hl+dKZczfqfVQ"; logging-data="25343"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/69Mg1efM/7DoGXlNS7h4ofSh4xWGbFHM=" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20120507 Icedove/3.0.11 In-Reply-To: Cancel-Lock: sha1:fEtPejJe0n4mKepiXnVN8OBWdJI= Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:14480 On 05/10/2012 10:26 PM, Lew wrote: > On 05/08/2012 07:49 AM, Jeff Higgins wrote: >> On 05/03/2012 01:02 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote: >>> On 05/03/2012 11:55 AM, zack ballard wrote: >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> So, I am a complete newb when it comes to programming and am wanting >>>> to learn. Been clicking on stuff for years and finally want to learn >>>> what makes what do what and how it works. I have been checking out >>>> some tutorials and have noticed that some of them are for people with >>>> prior programming expierence. My main question is this: should I >>>> start with java or start with a different language to learn as my >>>> first steps. Again, no expierence with any programming before (way >>>> back in high school, but don't remember a single thing) but am willing >>>> to put in the time and effort to learn. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions would be great. Thanks. >>> >>> There are a lot of levels of "what makes what do what and how it works". >>> Java is a fine language for many programming tasks, not so fine for >>> others. If you could pick a subject area of interest that would probably >>> narrow the choices of a language. Device drivers, dynamic HTML, etc. >>> >>> Michael L. Scott >>> Programming Language Pragmatics >>> 2000 >>> ISBN 1-55860-442-1 >>> For a great "what makes what do what and how it works" (on one level). >>> >>> >> I just found this, and it looks like it will be an interesting read. >> > > Bookmarked. Thank you. > > Theory works, interestingly enough. > > I wanted to learn Prolog once, so I read a textbook on predicate logic > featuring Horne clauses. This helped. > > Not that I remember that stuff now, but once your brain gets certain > grooves worn it's never quite the same again. > > The flip side is that learning such things improves your mental > versatility. Someone in these threads asked a while back about how you > break into a new area when you need experience to get a job in that > area, and your private learning isn't going to impress. > > Weirdly, I've mostly seen the opposite problem - being hired by folks > deliberately for languages or platforms that one has never even seen, > much less used, quite on purpose and with the expectation that one will > master it in, oh, a day, maybe two. I've had people gripe at three days > and never anyone happy with a week. > > The (meta-)skills of rapid learning are critical to survival. Especially > if you need quick, short-term work to tide you over a hump. Trust me, it > happens. > > How can you metalearn better? By understanding the tree from which you > pluck the fruit. > Reading a history of computing languages may help the OP also. I've found it easier to learn new things when I have had a good overview and can kinda see the big picture. Recently I've been trying to learn the Lisp language. I have spent some hours with online tutorial and books but somehow felt like I wasn't "getting it". After finding and spending more hours reading an old Lisp 1.5 Manual by the originator of the language I feel like I am finally able to "grok" the Lisp paradigm. Likewise, when I began using the Linux OS, I spent a long time feeling like I just wasn't getting it. A coworker suggested I read, and lent me a copy of "The Unix Programming Environment" by Rob Pike, a several decade old manual. I was skeptical but It turned out to be just what I needed to get me finally comfortable with the environment. Sometimes the old fundamental stuff can really help.