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From: BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject: Re: How to develop without an IDE?
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:59:18 -0700
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On 4/30/2012 7:03 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 4/30/2012 1:48 AM, BGB wrote:
>> On 4/29/2012 11:33 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2012 2:16 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>> On 4/28/2012 8:27 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> And let me quote something from the link you gave:
>>>>>
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> This is primarily due to the way the import directive works.
>>>>> Similar to
>>>>> a #include in C, this directive is used to allow access to externally
>>>>> defined symbols.
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>
>>>>> Java import is not similar to C include.
>>>>>
>>>>> And neither are used specifically to allow access to symbols.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it may depend some on "how does it look from afar?".
>>>>
>>>> the casual observer may not much think or care much about the
>>>> differences between, say, "inlining big globs of text" and "gaining
>>>> visibility into packages filled with classes" or similar.
>>>>
>>>> they may instead think "using this directive allows me to use the
>>>> library", while paying little attention to the hows or whys.
>>>>
>>>> so, to them, "X looks like Y" may be more important than "X is Y" or "X
>>>
>>>> this seems to be more the type of people the quoted paragraph was
>>>> intended for (vague wording more intended to give the basic idea
>>>> than to
>>>> be strictly accurate).
>>>
>>> It can be fine to come with an approximate correct explanation
>>> if it is simpler to understand.
>>>
>>> But it is not good to come with a completely false explanation
>>> just because it is simple.
>>>
>>> Java import and C include is not similar at any distance.
>>>
>>
>> well, both are used to make use of a library,
>
> Neither of them are used to make use of a library.
>
> Java import allows you to reference classes without package name.
>
> C include includes some source code from another file in the
> compilation of current file.
>

this is what they do (or, how they work), but the issue is not what they 
do, but what purpose they are used for.


>> both also have a word starting with the same letter and appear near the
>> top of a source file, and are vaguely similar looking, also sort of
>> making them "similar".
>
> C include can be anywhere in the file.

but is most often at the top (except maybe when writing headers or 
similar, where near the bottom is also common).


> They do both start with "i", but so does ice cream.

yes, but ice-cream is not a keyword in either language.


>>> Try ask a C++ programmer if he thinks that include and using
>>> are similar!
>>
>> well, there is an important difference here:
>> you can't use 'using' to see a namespace which hasn't already been
>> included, and also 'using' is typically used differently as well.
>
> Namespaces are not necessarily included and you can be using
> using without any include at all.
>

except in most cases this will not accomplish nearly as much.

"using namespace std;"

by itself, will not give access say, to iostream, hence why people 
generally still need to use #include.