Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Lew Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Aspect questions? Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:38:48 -0800 Organization: albasani.net Lines: 82 Message-ID: References: <4f4a6b1d$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.albasani.net yi4PDwKn88+m1o+lxIgM3jTVFPpgPk1FXvB/jIk5Qmr5owrCFDSTsi3NHoh+2immQFC6Ic+wv3HfUoIbbfe3c2ZN/J9UU855l/6HCZF5jaFyzo0AZ/Ew0kpEF3YAEgtq NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 06:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.albasani.net; logging-data="da3wzP4HazlmpvaYij1zsPugqcCGcqOwCr9si+lvw0KB81feWjUGScnpQjXd5rWk4V+wDH1adaW9zOfUlq75voyBQdkO/oGira29fpEY2mX1dxtroZ3C/B//r+/E1OpI"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@albasani.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 In-Reply-To: Cancel-Lock: sha1:wGOD1oXyiBXnC02stD7LNmxWwwc= Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:12577 Novice wrote: > Lew wrote: >> I've been hired again and again and again for languages that I didn't >> know until I started the job. >> >> How long does it take to learn a computer language? It took me about a >> week to learn Java. Less for Python, assuming you can say that I've >> learned it just because I can write effective programs in it. (I >> haven't, actually.) They gave me three class sessions in college to >> learn Pascal; I never showed up for the third session. Didn't need to. >> C I just picked up on the job because it looked interesting. >> >> Basically every language I've used professionally I learned on the >> job, and every language I've learned outside of work I have not been >> paid to use. >> > Wow! I am truly impressed by that. How did you sell employers on that? I > really want to know. I sell the skills I do have and learn new ones after I get there, mostly. Or I have enough of a basic understanding of the language without real expertise that I can get through an interview. Or I sell my ability to pick up the language instantaneously, and give specific cases where I've done just that. The weirdest was a pictorial programming language from Macromedia to create computer-directed learning applications. It was a friend's project, comprising just him and one programmer. He called me on a Thursday to help with a Monday deadline. I'd never programmed in pictures before. I think it's a matter of having the skill and baldly claiming it, but to tell the truth I don't really know how I pull it off. I think people feel the confidence and don't question it too closely. I know my capabilities and people seem to believe me. > I'm picturing a shop whose main language is, say, C++ (which you haven't > mentioned so I assume you don't know it.) The ad calls for serious C++ Wow, those assumptions! Really? I haven't mentioned violin playing, either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to play at least a little. I neglected to bring up that I play chess. Badly, but I play. I'm a really good horseback rider, though I haven't done it in a while.. > skills. You send a resume which doesn't claims no knowledge of C++ at > all. How do you even get an interview let alone persuade them that you > can be productive in that language in short order? I don't recommend trying to learn C++ quickly, nor claiming expertise in it if you don't know it. >>> impression is that employers all expect you to have a long list of >>> qualifications and certifications in _exactly_ what they want. And >>> they don't seem to want to have to spend any money training anyone >>> for anything. >> >> That's why my resume shows qualifications in every skill. >> > When you say that it shows qualifications, do you mean that it simply > lists technologies that you have used or do you have specific industry- > recognized certifications in each of the technologies? For instance, one > person might list programming skills like so: No, I mean that as a joke. No one has every skill. > Languages Known: COBOL, Fortran, LISP, C++ > > Another might say: > > Languages: Java (Advanced Programmer Certification), C (Intermediate > Programmer Certification), etc. etc. I don't have any certifications. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg