Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!usenet.ukfsn.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Gregorie Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Agile Project Management Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:46:00 +0000 (UTC) Organization: UK Free Software Network Lines: 52 Message-ID: References: <8b9e9575-e454-4d1b-80aa-f89a4a39b511@t24g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <4f36f42a$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4f37009f$0$288$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.45.235.129 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: localhost.localdomain 1329061560 5932 84.45.235.129 (12 Feb 2012 15:46:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@localhost.localdomain NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:46:00 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:11982 On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:58:20 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 2/11/2012 6:46 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: >> OTOH you may have misunderstood the ability of large and bureaucratic >> organisations to stuff up any project by putting it under the control >> of a semi-competent manager to buttresses his ignorance of the >> methodology and impresses his bosses by managing the crap out of it. >> I've seen this effect in action in government departments (HMCE as was >> circa 1990) and bastard offshoots of government (Cable& Wireless HQ in >> Hong Kong around the same time). The latter was incredible: internally >> it fit all the stereotypes of Whitewhall in the 1950s right down to the >> tea trolley, but I digress.... > > But are you claiming that it is worse for agile than for non agile? > Nope - just pointing out that some managers can sscrew up anything and/or be officious pricks. Here's an HMCE example. We were using PRINCE, a somewhat prescriptive project management scheme much loved by people in UK government. One of its requirements is that every document type has to have a template, which describes the document's content, when to use it and why. PRINCE doesn't provide the templates because they're project specific. I don't have a problem with this for a widely used document such as a requirement or module description, but the managers were pretty much jobsworths and didn't really know what they were doing. Because of the 'every document must match its template' requirement, I ended up having to produce a template for a document which would only ever be used once in the project. I managed to restrain myself from demanding that they supply a template for defining templates, but that took real willpower. >> Question: How do modern Agile Development methodologies differ from >> their, presumably, ancestral Scrum and Sashimi approaches to >> development? > > I think Scrum is still modern. > Yes, I regularly see it specified in job adverts. As it seems to have first appeared as a recognised methodology in the mid '80s, I was wondering if it had mutated and if I'm right in assuming that Agile is son-of-Scrum. It appears that successful projects I worked on through the late 80s and 90s were more or less all organised along Scrum lines, though with an added prefix that the core project team was generally assembled to run the bid process, usually along Scrum lines, and went on to do the project if we won it. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |