Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "MikeP" Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:29:43 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <015aeb15-57db-48ab-9cd4-77f8448b632f@w24g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> <2rydnez7l-H5BYnTnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> Injection-Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 04:29:46 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="JFpB2gvi06BqMH/s1e1Gsw"; logging-data="7578"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX194N4g1yQF1QcbDOkeaIAZw" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 Cancel-Lock: sha1:oyRnPIP5mEkOYwGlOpeoxFxGUYA= X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:6219 Patricia Shanahan wrote: > On 7/14/2011 10:14 PM, MikeP wrote: >> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>> On 7/6/2011 8:35 AM, rop rop wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> If I want to have arithmetic-overflow checking in all parts of an >>>> application, >>>> what is the most practical, simple, efficient way to achieve this? >>> >>> Write the application in Ada. >>> >>> Patricia >> >> But C# is very Java-like and has "checked" and also the >> compiler-level equivalent, so C# would be the better alternative. >> (And yes, I do know you were just kidding about Ada). >> >> > > No, I was not really joking, though I did not attempt to find all the > languages that would meet the stated requirement. Don't look now, but if you weren't joking, then you recommended Ada to a Java programmer! Oh my. > > I'm very strongly of the opinion different languages should provide > different features, making different trade-offs, and programmers > should pick the language for a job based on its requirements and > those features. You have to admit, it's quite a chasm between Java/C# and Ada. > The alternative a lot of programmers follow seems to be to pick one > language, I do/did that. (C++ is my poison). > ignore all the others, I have regularly looked at other languages and used them in minor ways for evaluation. > and then complain when there is a > mismatch between that language's features and their current > requirements. In another post, I said that I think that today (like in right now) the awareness of the overflow issue (language support) has achieved critical mass. Combine that with the alternatives that are available and more yet to come, a language cannot afford to go the path of, say, C anymore for it will lose relevance much more quickly. It's not complaining. It's customer feedback (companies BEG their customers for such!). Companies that don't recognize their customers needs and change with the times, go out of business. Java is not C and can't afford to stagnate like C did (OK, C++ gave it a "reconditioning"), or it won't last. > > I have no problem with pushing minor changes and additional features > within the general framework of a language, but if the basic framework > is not a good match for a job, the solution is to pick a language that > is more suitable. C# will fit in a lot of places where Java does (or so I assume given what I know about them, as I'm don't use either language other than for evaluation and case study). Pushing away programmers to other languages instead of evolving the language according to the expectations (i.e., what programmers have come to expect to be standard feature in a given class of language) is surely a path to obsolescence.