Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!newsfeed.x-privat.org!news2.euro.net!209.197.12.246.MISMATCH!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!69.16.185.16.MISMATCH!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 From: Michael Wojcik Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Managed-Code Bloat Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:59:19 -0400 Organization: Micro Focus Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <8486d40e-0cc1-40ec-93bc-41658d22edeb@r33g2000prh.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pe197b9ab1fa7a301c8396d0ed4e0c355a55803bf1effb618.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090812 Thunderbird/2.0.0.23 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 In-Reply-To: Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:5108 Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > In message > <8486d40e-0cc1-40ec-93bc-41658d22edeb@r33g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Alessio > Stalla wrote: > >> PHP, Python, Perl, Ruby, ... are not perceived as "bloated" while Java and >> C# are. > > Maybe it’s because the former do reference-counting (freeing up most things > the moment they become unreachable) while the latter don’t. That's because reference counting has undesirable performance characteristics (cache misses, pipeline stalls) due to reference updates, and generational collectors often outperform reference counters. There are algorithms which appear to have superior performance to either pure generational collectors or naive hybrids (ie, a reference counter with an occasional sweeping collector to catch dead circular-referenced objects), such as ulterior reference counting. (The basic idea is to pick an algorithm based on the expected demographics of different groups of objects.) But they haven't caught on widely; it's likely that the advantage isn't compelling for typical applications. In any case, I'm highly dubious of perceptions of languages as "bloated" or otherwise. That's not likely to be a useful evaluation. -- Michael Wojcik Micro Focus Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University