Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gene Wirchenko Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Source code representation (was: code generation for the ternary operator). Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 09:47:44 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 68 Message-ID: References: <29cla79dh934epr5n27cghvupjk77mpuqr@4ax.com> <4eaab738$0$5147$e4fe514c@dreader17.news.xs4all.nl> <2011110101533290344-angrybaldguy@gmailcom> <3jp1b7drmmhg7i9eo75f6sai9qottf11ua@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="7Qrvczazr82YckO5XW8Vtw"; logging-data="1593"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+p/JnouU1rnYWo+g+1/vqfuig1aNU9w0c=" X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 Cancel-Lock: sha1:UBj71SDzAPiZUV+jWJIqZ0IrhnI= Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:9378 On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:52:26 -0700, Roedy Green wrote: >On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:41:00 -0700, Daniel Pitts > wrote, quoted or indirectly >quoted someone who said : > >> >>In other words, you have the language constructs (classes, methods, >>fields, statements, aspects, loops, etc...) modeled, and then have view >>in front of that model which make them "look" like something that can be >>manipulated easily by the programmer. > >I have been pushing the SCID idea for decades. There has been very >strong resistance to it. I think it is based on the following: > >1. I talk about all the wild an crazy things you COULD do with code >display it if were pre-parsed into a tree. Most of these things >remind people of the clownish decor in a McDonald's restaurant. They >imagine garish colours, dancing paperclips, animated icons... And run >in horror. They don't get in that what I am about is CUSTOMISATION, >so you can have the display EXACTLY the way YOU like it, completely >independent of what other people like. None of this would be >mandatory. They look at my prototype JDisplay listings and recoil at >the garishness. http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdisplay.html What would it take to implement such? If it is much effort at all, it gets in the way or is difficult to justify. Writing a text-processing utility is simpler. >2. People have SCID-like tools that just got in the way of editing. Yes. I have utilties that process text files. I would like to be able to use them on source code without having to jump through a hoop. >3. People like the security of text files. Database have a habit of >losing everything, perhaps with software is discontinued, OSes >changes. I would say "simplicity" instead of "security", but it is about the same argument. Text files convert to other systems fairly easily, too, but SCID between two SCID systems might not. >4. Experienced programmers think of programming as manipulating text. >They have to be weaned to think more of thinking of programming as >more like plumbing where you interconnect names. Eventually editing >will be much more visual where you select methods, drag variables into >place, and do a lot of selecting from a list of what the SCID >considers most plausible. Typing is much faster than mousing for me. The text interface is also simpler. I can use my own editor that fits my preferences rather than getting locked into a GUI IDE. >I have been pitching some of these ideas to IntelliJ. I am using the >notion of almost-subliminal differences in the way text is rendered to >give additional information about each symbol without having to look >back at the definition. Given that you are not supposed to even >notice the difference perhaps contrarians will then argue for more >distinctive warping. I tend to find such things distracting and prefer to not have them. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko