Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gene Wirchenko Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: How to develop without an IDE? Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 19:15:55 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 89 Message-ID: References: <17227321.23.1335224680979.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbvd8> <4f9ca79d$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4f9f4791$0$285$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4fa06a36$0$288$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="wKah3EH8kutwAOV6+9FiEQ"; logging-data="23618"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX182iVa6HaetMYU4zuc5bb3G6drz5jrSTOU=" X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 Cancel-Lock: sha1:bmIvwqhiZXRPV+LrZjV/0/gbKXs= Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:14121 On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:56:51 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >On 5/1/2012 1:19 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote: >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:16:47 -0400, Arne Vajhøj >> wrote: [snip] >>> Who would hire somebody that only know about a very specific and highly >>> unusual environment? >> >> You keep putting twists in your responses. I did not say "only"; >> you have just added it. > >Yes. > >Because I assume that is what you meant. How about checking instead of putting curves in? >But let us get it clarified. Do you mean: >A) developers should learn the common tools (ant and maven for Java build) No. It is likely that a developer will need such, but if he does not, then passing on them is acceptable. You can argue probabilities if you want. I will not bother. I am thinking of the individual developer who might have no need at all for the tools, or might well absolutely have to know them, but it is the individual case that I am concerned with. >B) it is fine developers with developer only knowing less used tools >? It could be. If that is all that a developer needs and will not use the other tools, that is fine. If it turns out that a developer needs to learn another tool -- whether ant, maven, or anything else -- then yes, he ought to. I just do not see the point of learning a tool that one is not going to use. Know about, yes; know, maybe. I have sometimes only used a tool once and never needed it after that. Several versions later, what do I really know about it? Not much anymore. >>>>> It is not a problem not to know anything about some rare obscure tool, >>>>> but knowing tools that are used by 50% or 30% of all Java developers >>>>> is a problem. >>>> >>>> So the 50% to 70% who do not use a tool should still know it? >>>> Rather a waste of time. >>> >>> Where do you get "50% to 70% who do not use a tool" from? >> >> Simple negation. If 30% to 50% of all Java developers use >> certain tools, then 100%-30% to 100%-50% (= 70% to 50% which >> normalises to 50% to 70%) do not. > >It is 30-50% each. Fine. If no overlap, then 0% to 40% use something else. >>> With 30%-50% usage for both ant and Maven that sounds impossible. >> >> 1) Overlap. Some use both. > >Your 50-70 assumes perfect overlap. > >That is certainly not the case. I thought you were referring to the both of them since you only gave one figure. >And the survey in question (Eclipse 2011) was asking about typical >build system, so the overlap must be very small. > >> 2) It was your figure. Perhaps, you got it wrong. This is not >> normally a big deal, but when you keep hammering on a point, it would >> be nice if you had your facts straight. > >What facts are not straight? Percentages. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko