Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!209.197.12.246.MISMATCH!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!69.16.185.11.MISMATCH!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe13.iad.POSTED!83aa503d!not-for-mail
From: Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120208 Thunderbird/10.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject: Re: Hairy generics question
References: <3c65271e-a388-49c9-bcc6-ca3bf274e74f@e27g2000vbu.googlegroups.com> <29108397.63.1330110725245.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbpw21> <ji8qfc$84a$1@news.albasani.net> <7822487.176.1330121248108.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkl3>
In-Reply-To: <7822487.176.1330121248108.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkl3>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <aaV1r.13982$Pc2.8047@newsfe13.iad>
X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsrazor.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:36:38 UTC
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:36:37 -0800
X-Received-Bytes: 2525
Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:12301

On 2/24/12 2:07 PM, sclaflin@webucator.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 24, 2012 3:03:56 PM UTC-5, Lew wrote:
>> On 02/24/2012 11:12 AM, sclaflin wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the circularity is necessary, but I've worked with my fellows on a few
>> hairy generics issues where circularity seemed necessary, and it never was.
>> Each time it turned out that an acyclic type graph did the trick, and better
>> than the initial circular approach.
>>
>> Of course since you can't share any of the relevant details we have no way of
>> helping you see if there is an acyclic approach. Still, I cannot accept your
>> simple declaration that there isn't. The odds are just too strongly against it.
>>
>
>
> Lew,
>
> You could well be right.  I based my structure on a framework that had Presenter<V>  and View, but then the view didn't know how to talk to the presenter.  So, they add in ReverseView<P>  separately.  I was trying to combine them both, and with those dual sorts of situations I've always ended up with circularity.
>
> You guessed that I've got proprietary code that I can't share, and I'm supposed to be spending time on that, not general-purpose things.  But, if I can come up with a minimal but complete example, I'll post it.

In what way is a Presenter different from a "controller".  View's should 
never know about Controllers, only about models.  Controllers know about 
specific views and specific models.  Models know about generic 
listeners, if you need to have an active view (non web-app stuff).