Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe10.iad.POSTED!8ad76e89!not-for-mail From: Arved Sandstrom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111108 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac References: <0001HW.CB35ACBC000174A4B038C9DF@news.panix.com> <130120121001312844%jimsgibson@gmail.com> <1da9u3dnny5vt.1tgpf78ljfb0d$.dlg@40tude.net> In-Reply-To: <1da9u3dnny5vt.1tgpf78ljfb0d$.dlg@40tude.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 60 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsgroups-download.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:00:56 UTC Organization: Public Usenet Newsgroup Access Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:00:56 -0400 Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:11324 On 12-01-14 12:13 AM, Peter Duniho wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > >> [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs >> going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic >> Mac and Mac OS X has been very good. >> >> Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial >> AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac >> anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of >> things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO. > > My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going > back only five years. But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac > was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's > justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging. Note also the > problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily, > while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest > Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well. > > Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary, > more up-to-date, etc. And I'd certainly agree that Java development on the > Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world. But I'd > definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good". I > wouldn't even call it close to that. > > Pete OK, OK, maybe I was in a really charitable mood when I wrote my first reply. I'll revise my opinion and say that I think Apple support for Java has been good, and sometimes very good. It hasn't been just 1.5->1.6 that exhibited a delay, the other jumps (1.3->1.4, 1.4->1.5) have been like that too. I believe that there is a developer base that is relatively unconcerned about this (like me), and that's server-side folks who see their product ultimately deploy on Windows or Solaris or Linux against an older JVM from Sun (now Oracle) or IBM or BEA (now Oracle). Not many "enterprise" clients upgrade their infrastructure so quick either. I have to acknowledge that Mac Java developers who want to write consumer-type GUI software didn't pick the best platform for it. Although I personally believe that anyone who "needs" the latest Java the day it comes out has misplaced priorities, it's not my place to say, I'm not a writer of consumer GUI apps. So if such a person is wedded to the Mac (for other good reasons) but needs the latest Java, they'd best use a VM. And quite frankly a lot of professional developers using Macs do use VMs anyway. I know I do. So it's a moot point actually. Given that the VMs are so good it's a wonder that Apple didn't throw in the towel for Java support a long time ago. Apple does have different priorities, like linking major Java upgrades to their major OS upgrades. I can see reasons for that, without being an Apple fanboi. AHS -- ...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government... -- Thomas Jefferson, 1789