Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news.musoftware.de!wum.musoftware.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: blmblm@myrealbox.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.lisp Subject: OT names/nyms/etc. (was Re: Why "lock" functionality is introduced for all the objects?) Date: 8 Jul 2011 17:19:50 GMT Organization: None Lines: 247 Message-ID: <97oshlF2ohU1@mid.individual.net> References: <4e14ef70$0$1580$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com> <97mg3pFpbhU1@mid.individual.net> X-Trace: individual.net NJdxIISB3a6CFi05YPhP3QCYLsBv97vD3o1DQf2vOFTML+3G+h X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Cancel-Lock: sha1:xbCGzdNgmOy2ktdT4a4Kukp12L0= X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:5988 comp.lang.lisp:4600 In article , Steve Erwin wrote: > blmblm@myrealbox.com > wrote: > >In article <4e14ef70$0$1580$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>, > >Steve Erwin wrote: > >> blmblm@myrealbox.com > >> wrote: > >> >In article <4e14a510$0$6450$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com>, > >> >Steve Erwin wrote: > >> >> blmblm@myrealbox.com > >> >> wrote: > > > >[ snip ] > > > >> As an aside, may I suggest you try this syntax in trn > >> as a "From"? > >> "blmblm@myrealbox.com" > >> The change may then allow your "nym" to list > >> 'correctly' in the message group for all reader > >> software; > >> example of your header display in one reader is here: > >> https://rapidshare.com/files/664524757/trn_UsenetSyntax.jpg > > > >Eh. I'm not sure I *want* only the part you have in double quotes > >to display (which is what would happen, right?) -- it's no longer a > >working address, and while the actual address in the angle brackets > >works, anyone who assumes the "nym" is a working address .... > > > The fog in the picture would clear were you see the > list I uploaded. But I did [see your list] -- eventually. Was that not clear? I guess not. More about that below. > But never mind, let's try this? > In a "From" you have two fields: > 1. name > 2. active link > > the name can be anything---> 2Many_Nyms% > the link *must* be in this form--> xxxxx@xxx.xxx > and *should* be valid--> blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com > but *could* be invalid---> > blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com.null > or > blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com.invalid > or > blmblm.myrealbox@SPAMgmail.com > > ..... about the differences? > Today it maybe a tad foolish to be publishing a valid > email addy in a "From". I set it up that way initially because the news server I use required a valid address. I think they've changed their policy, but since the e-mail address I use here is basically a spamcatcher, I'm not strongly motivated to try to disguise it. > Spam might not worry you > yourself (many peeps are setup very well to deny Spam > to their boxen) but it does contribute to "network > overload/stress" when the spamBots start searching for > a home for something that appears valid. > Adding "SPAM" anywhere in an email address no longer > works as a "deSpam", the bots are onto it. > AFAIK.. "invalid" or "null" are the only 'tags' that > render a modern email address useless to spamBots. Eh, that's a good point. Hm. On the minus side, it does somewhat inconvenience anyone who wants to reply by mail. Then again, so few people have done so over the years (at least, as far as I know) .... > But I digress... > > For the first part of "From"? > nntp clients have variance in how they interpret what > the user types as syntax and what is actually tX'd as > data. > In a Windows GUI, you just type (in the name field) > your desired "handle" and most intuitive GUI's will > output; > Joe B. Bloggs > to the list of posters names seen in a header pull. > > In nix clients it is often the case to be adding double > quotes to the "handle" to enable the tX to the server > to list the name. ie, "Joe B. Bloggs" delivers > Joe B. Bloggs > No double quotes and the list shows; > Joe B. Bloggs > This is how your headers appear in a list view. Yes, quite. And that's okay with me -- since as best I can tell your suggestion would result in just the "blmblm@myrealbox.com" displaying, which I don't want. > For the second part of "From"? > In a Windows GUI you just type (in the email address > field) your described published email address and most > intuitive GUI's will output the syntax *only* in the > *header* fields, both in a "reply to" line (or "wrote") > in the body of the post, and in the 'hidden' headers of > the original post. > It will not appear in the list of poster's names. > This is how it *should* be. Maybe so. But in the case of my rather peculiar "name" I think it would result in something that might mislead people. Of course I could pick a "name" that wasn't a now-obsolete e-mail address, but I started out using the address because I couldn't come up with a name I liked, and all these years later I still can't -- not to mention that there's the continuity issue. > In nix clients it is often the case to be adding angle > brackets to the email address so as to have the server > recognise a conforming post (RFC's) and accept the > article. Some servers will accept anything, yet as the > post propagates around farms the message gets rejected > and thus only a few readers using poorly configured > servers will see the post. And usually even that is > limited as the cleanup rate (TTL) usually drops the > post within hours/days. > > Now of course there are exceptions to just about all > of any man made 'rule', and, yes.. there are some who > delight in discovering "why it is so". Thus -nobody- is > going to give you grief for a poorly displayed "nym" , > as maybe that is how you -want- it. > > "Lamers" may be an exception, you could 'hear' a squeak > >from the likes of "Kit-Kat", well.. maybe not in the > near future [cough] :->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > My two bits is just saying,, "this is what it *looks* > like, is that cool with you?". > And I ask, cos guys like me immediately think "newbie" > when seeing a handle listing in that way. > That, or ,"okay, that troll just fukd up!" > Even the most skilled troll makes mistakes.. mheh heh > > An' you aint no newbie :-) Eh. I think I'll leave it alone for now. I suppose if there was a rash of posts agreeing with you I might change my mind. Thanks for the info anyway -- it *is* interesting to know how others perceive what I do, since the tools I use are generally pretty far from the mainstream. > >(Not that it matters, but you've found for me one more site that > >apparently requires a newer version of Javascript than is included > >in the Firefox on the system I usually use at home -- when I point > >that old Firefox at the above URL, I get something that asks me to > >log in or create an account. > > > /nods > RS has denied my 0pera9+ completely for quite some time > now. > I use FFv3.0 or lynx, and have accounts, so no problem. That site works for you with lynx?? Strange -- I tried it but got basically nothing but an indication that the site used Javascript, which my version of lynx doesn't support. (Is there a version that does support Javascript? I thought not, but it's been a while since I checked.) > As I understood it the published link immediately > coughed up a dialog box (in a web browser) which then > prompted saving the file to a drive. It didn't do that in the browsers I tried (lynx and two versions of Firefox -- a 1.something and a 3.something). > Maybe RS (like a number of others ) have made it that > one must have an account to grab files, I do not know. > If you want a second go at it I would strip some stuff > out and try a few methods other than my standard > approach..mkay? Just using a more recent version of Firefox was enough -- eventually. What I got, with that more recent version of Firefox, was something fairly different from what the antique Firefox gave me: There were several clickable buttons that seemed like they required having or creating an account. But there was also, near the bottom of the page, a button labeled "free download". When I clicked that one, there was a short delay, and then a progress bar suggesting that something was happening appeared, and then the button changed color. I didn't get any kind of prompt about where to save the downloaded file, so I assumed that it had been put in some relatively sensible default place. But then I couldn't find it! After repeating the process more than once in the hope of getting a different result (probably not very sensible), I finally did something (can't remember exactly what, possibly right-clicking on that button) that gave me a prompt that allowed me to save the !@#$ thing. "Mission accomplished", but what a hassle .... The downside of not upgrading, I suppose. Maybe it all works better with some other browser. Or maybe this is an(other) instance of PEBKAC. I'm not infrequently flummoxed by user interfaces that their designers probably thought were intuitive. (Don't get me started.) > >If there's a way to download the file > >without creating an account, it's not obvious .... Trying again > >with a more recent browser gave better results (an option for "free > >download"). What a pain. Why I don't replace that old Firefox -- > >eh, long story, comes down to "more trouble than you might think".) > > > All of this - "URLS to files on the web" is why it > pays to go get "binary enabled". It is just too easy to > upload a file to a remote group (from the conversation) > and just publish the Message-ID. Well, the news server I use doesn't carry binary groups, so that wouldn't work for me. > Buuuut today we just do not seem to be able to sell > that message over and above "too easy" java enabled web > services, which, as you discover.. aint so lubricating > to information exchange as the designers would have > Joe Public believe:-/ Apparently not. :-)? > BuuuT that is another topic > Holler if I can help, mkay? Thanks, but I think I get the point you were making now. -- B. L. Massingill ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.