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Re: StringBuilder Difficulties

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In article <e9ps07h56utkftkp8fcarm7uhkk5t999le@4ax.com>,
Gene Wirchenko  <genew@ocis.net> wrote:
> On 1 Jul 2011 20:47:47 GMT, blmblm@myrealbox.com
> <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >In article <6cqp07tiug2nu8u6ififvvek1694fkpfi1@4ax.com>,
> >Gene Wirchenko  <genew@ocis.net> wrote:
> >> On 30 Jun 2011 20:30:00 GMT, blmblm@myrealbox.com
> >> <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> [snip]
> >> 
> >> >A general comment:  I'm inclined to agree with the people who are
> >> >saying that in general it seems like you're trying to write [name
> >> >of your favorite language] programs in Java, and in the long term
> >> >that seems less optimal than trying to grok the Java mindset.  
> >> 
> >>      My mindset is that I want to get my work done.  I do not care
> >> about the Java mindset except as it helps me get my work done.
> >
> >Yes, and if you were going to do a lot of programming in Java it
> >would seem to make sense to adapt to the local customs, so to speak.
> >Not to do so seems to me like fighting with your tools, which, well,
> >I do it too sometimes, but it does get in the way of getting stuff
> >done.
> 
>      My tools include manyyears of experience programming.  I do not
> think that Java is such a precious snowflake -- the same is true of
> any language -- that I should have to throw all that experience away
> in order to use the language.

As another poster has responded, I'm not convinced that's what
you're being asked to do (though you obviously feel otherwise).

It seems to me that one of the things one learns from doing a lot
of coding in a lot of languages is recognizing when something is
the same as what you've done before, just with different syntax,
and when it's different.

<shrug>

> >> >I think part of it may be struggling with the object-oriented
> >> >paradigm, but part of it may just be coming to terms with the fact
> >> 
> >>      No, I am experienced with OOP.
> >
> >Huh.  Well, with all due respect ....
> >
> >I'd have said otherwise given that all of the variables and methods
> >in your TimingTesting program (the version I tried revising) seem
> >to be static (except the local variables).  I'm also puzzled by why
> >that program duplicates so much code, when you could have factored
> >out the parts that are different using objects-as-code-wrappers.
> >But maybe the O-O languages you've used before don't make you do
> >that, and adapting to that particular Java idiom seemed not worth
> >the trouble.
> 
>      Oh, I asked about that.  One apparently can not pass a function
> pointer parameter as in C.  The ways that were posted involved lookup
> every time AFIACS and I judged that it might swamp what I was
> measuring (checking if a character were in a set).  So, to my chagrin,
> I had to go with cut-and-paste.

Without experimenting to find out, of course ....  

It seems to me that virtual method invocations are so common in
Java that they would be well-optimized.  But if you want to claim
that the code you eventually hope to produce won't have one, well,
yeah, that's true, so maybe it matters.  Then again, wouldn't a
similar argument apply to C with function pointers?  Maybe not.
I don't seem to be able to think this through as carefully as
I'd like.

Anyway, I was curious, so I ran your code and my revision [1], and
the results were -- surprising [2].  I noticed, by the way, that
all three of your parse methods make a call to SequentialSearch,
assigning the result to a variable that apparently isn't used.
Thinking that *might* be a mistake, I also tried your code and my
revision with that possibly-extra call removed.

[1] Message-ID: <96k6atFt60U2@mid.individual.net>

[2] I tried this on several different systems, all Fedora Linux
running Java 1.6.0_21 but different hardware and different releases
of Fedora.  I was going to include results here, but in trying
the experiment on additional systems I'm less and less convinced
the results would mean anything without my putting more effort
into it than I'm up for.  (Usually when I'm timing something
I try it twice, and if results are close enough I don't bother
with additional trials.  In this case results of two trials were
just different enough for me to think I'd need to do more to get
meaningful results.)  Briefly, though .... :

Your code was fairly (but not 100%!) consistent in showing
treeset-based search to be fastest, followed by binary search and
then sequential search, though sometimes the difference between
sequential and binary was small.  My code was -- well, this is where
it's surprising.  On most of the systems where I tried it, treeset
search was fastest, but sequential search was faster than binary
search; on one system, however, the order was as for your code.
Your code was pretty consistently faster than mine, though usually
not by a lot (less than 1%).

> >> >that Java is, as I think Patricia Shanahan said not long ago
> >> >(possibly in another thread), that Java is just plain verbose.
> >> 
> >>      Well, I posted about the verbosity earlier and got flak over it.
> >> 
> >> >But I have some sympathy with the desire just to get something 
> >> >running:  I spent a number of hours a while back trying to teach
> >> 
> >>      And without having to buy into a language religion.
> >
> >Hm.  I wouldn't say that adapting to local customs constitutes
> >buying into a language religion.  YMMV, I suppose.
> 
>      Some of the posters have been quite vociferous about it.

I've noticed a certain amount of, oh, "contentiousness" maybe, on both
sides.  Sort of a :-), sort of not.  

(Aside:  I recognize your name from alt.folklore.computers, where
you seem, oh, much more mild-mannered.  Hm.)

> >> >myself some Scheme and in the process trying make it conform to
> >> >my strongly-typed-languages-trained mindset, and I'd probably
> >> >have done better to get a good introductory book and try to grok
> >> >the no-types(?) mindset.  (Maybe I'll try again at some point.)
> 
>      I am pretty much past the intro stage and into the pain stage
> where there is not so much help.

That people are not willing to offer further help when many of their
previous suggestions have been rejected should not be a total surprise.
<shrug>

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-28 17:54 -0700
  Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-28 21:29 -0400
    Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-06-29 00:48 -0400
      Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 12:19 -0700
    Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 12:11 -0700
      Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-29 22:06 -0400
  Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 20:17 +0000
    Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 18:55 -0700
      Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 20:30 +0000
        Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-30 14:17 -0700
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-30 21:36 -0400
            Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-01 01:41 -0400
        Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-30 14:26 -0700
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-06-30 17:33 -0700
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 20:47 +0000
            Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-01 17:29 -0700
              Re: StringBuilder Difficulties rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2011-07-02 11:36 +0100
              Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-02 12:58 +0200
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 07:52 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-04 21:45 +0200
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-05 02:06 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 09:32 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-05 14:13 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 12:51 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-07-05 23:16 +0200
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 15:08 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-07-06 09:41 +0200
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "eye" <eye@mocka.com> - 2011-07-06 09:55 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 05:37 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "thoolen" <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 08:43 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 22:30 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "Stefan Robacki" <noemail@noemail.foobar> - 2011-07-06 00:04 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 05:45 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 08:26 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 22:36 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-07-06 06:09 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:40 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> - 2011-07-14 06:50 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-14 02:58 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-07-14 10:20 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> - 2011-07-14 07:33 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-07-05 23:44 +0300
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 14:08 -0700
              Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 18:33 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-02 16:56 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:34 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-02 19:55 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 03:32 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 08:04 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 19:12 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 14:06 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 21:16 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 17:29 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:59 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:52 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-06 16:58 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:52 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 21:54 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:18 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:41 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:45 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 05:48 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:59 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-06 10:56 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:44 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-08 11:51 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:08 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 07:54 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-11 22:37 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 15:52 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 08:25 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:41 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:58 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 21:57 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:17 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:44 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Steve Erwin <trollHunter@Usenet.4.usenetizens.org.invalid> - 2011-07-07 12:51 +1000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 23:02 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> - 2011-07-14 06:32 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-14 02:57 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-07-14 10:07 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> - 2011-07-14 07:24 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 07:58 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 19:09 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> - 2011-07-05 15:15 -0400
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 20:03 +0000
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 14:11 -0700
                Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:55 +0000
      Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:08 -0700
        Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:35 +0200
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 04:07 -0700
  Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 14:38 -0700
    Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 15:00 -0700
      Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 15:52 -0700
        Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 18:58 -0700
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 19:26 -0700
          Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:11 -0700
  Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-29 18:32 -0700

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