From: Ken Wesson <kwesson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why =?iso-8859-13?b?tG5ld6E/?=
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On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 09:13:57 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

> On 11-02-06 03:25 AM, Mike Schilling wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Ken Wesson" <kwesson@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4d4e29fb$1@news.x-privat.org...
>>> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 14:59:49 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05-02-2011 14:52, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>>> On 11-02-05 03:18 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 05-02-2011 01:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> In message<iii71v$3ud$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How many hundreds of times a day do Java programms write
>>>>>>>> something like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> classname varname = new classname(args);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And this just gets worse with generic types, e.g.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GenericClass<Type1, Type2> x = new GenericClass<Type1, Type2>;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well that does not compile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> because Java has no typedefs like C++:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> typedef GenericClass<Type1, Type2>
>>>>>>> ShortName;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well - if you want to minimize the number of characters in the
>>>>>> source code, then Java is definitely not the language for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah...and neither is C++.
>>>>
>>>> It is shorter than Java (a little bit in syntax a lot in style).
>>>>
>>>> But I am sure there are languages shorter than C++.
>>>
>>> Lisp, in a good way.
>>>
>>> Perl, in a bad way.
>>
>> APL, in an ugly way.
> 
> J has arguably helped with that. Some. Fact is, if you apply yourself to
> learning and using J then it's not line-noise at all, it's just
> extremely terse. It's not symbol cruft in the same sense that Perl is.

And what, pray tell, is J?

Not that it matters much. You can't even type in APL code with a normal 
keyboard and a normally-behaving text editor. Even Perl isn't quite 
*that* awful. :)