Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!feeder.news-service.com!postnews.google.com!v11g2000prn.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: lewbloch Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: JavaBeans Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 63 Message-ID: <28db19fd-7ed4-430b-9474-bc41bee7350d@v11g2000prn.googlegroups.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 108.89.33.208 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1311436553 18111 127.0.0.1 (23 Jul 2011 15:55:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 15:55:53 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: v11g2000prn.googlegroups.com; posting-host=108.89.33.208; posting-account=CP-lKQoAAAAGtB5diOuGlDQk0jIwmH0T User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-Google-Web-Client: true X-Google-Header-Order: ASELCHRU X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/13.0.782.99 Safari/535.1,gzip(gfe) Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:6455 On Jul 23, 8:46=A0am, markspace <-@.> wrote: > On 7/23/2011 8:23 AM, Stefan Ram wrote: > > > markspace<-@.> =A0writes: > >> I suspect we are missing some context here. =A0Not all Java beans uses > >> have worked out. =A0Is there a link to your source? > > > =A0 =A0Yes, I found it! > > > |Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:34:19 +0100 > > |From: Tom Anderson > > |Subject: Re: Spring/hibernate and JDBC > > |(...) > > |Waitwhat? Tools composing applications out of JavaBeans? Wasn't that i= dea > > |dead in, like, 1998? What the hell is going on here? Is there some mad > > |backwater Lost World of Java development where people are actually > > |building apps by dragging icons around in tools? > > Right. =A0He says "Tools composing applications...by dragging icons > around." =A0Yeah, that's dead. =A0Except for Matisse, where GUI layout is= in > fact an inherently graphical in nature, I can't think of a single useful > "drag icons around to make an app" implementation. > > Maybe there's a useful tool someplace that I haven't seen, but I doubt > it. =A0If such a thing were useful I'd think it would be popular enough > for me to notice by now. NetBeans, for example, uses bean properties and other advanced properties of beans. It's not the only program. Many programs do use bean property-change listeners. It's not dead, just used only in the places where it helps. "Fail" is in the eyes of the beholder. The API is there; use it if it helps you. There are many less-used parts of the API and people are not calling them failures. How often do people use 'java.util.concurrent.CopyOnWriteArraySet'? Is it a "failure"? A great majority of the "sky is falling" hyperbole in either direction ("It will save the world!", "It has completely failed!") is pure bullshit. What even constitutes "failure" for an API element? I would consider JavaBeans a failure if they couldn't be used for their intended use case, not if they merely haven't been used for all places where one might conceive they be. And look! They do work where intended, as intended. And as others have observed, they are used. In fact, the nearly- universal convention of using get/set methods for properties makes those classes that do that JavaBeans by definition. How is that a "failure"? There have been failures in Java. The pre-5 memory model and most of 'java.util.Date' are examples. Not JavaBeans, though. I deem the problem with more advanced features of JavaBeans to be in the programmers who fail to understand and use them where they'd help. This is a problem of mediocrity in the practitioners, not of utility of the tools. -- Lew