Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!news-out.readnews.com!news-xxxfer.readnews.com!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Lew Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <20638428.276.1334951022461.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcsx5> References: <4f87624e$0$287$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <71igo75jrn2rodtmtv8qnc9q6hrl0n6lkt@4ax.com> <4f88c92a$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4f8e22d5$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <4f8f4c40$0$291$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.28.149.29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1334951493 2813 127.0.0.1 (20 Apr 2012 19:51:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:51:33 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=69.28.149.29; posting-account=CP-lKQoAAAAGtB5diOuGlDQk0jIwmH0T User-Agent: G2/1.0 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:13708 Gene Wirchenko wrote: > Arved Sandstrom wrote: >=20 > [snip] >=20 > >I'm with Arne on this one. I expect programmers using a language to at > >least thoroughly understand the datatypes for a language. Granted, > >leading zeros are a pretty crappy prefix choice, which is why a lot of > >languages use something else, but a diligent _learning_programmer should > >have discovered this crappy choice when reading about literals. >=20 > Odd. You are agreeing with ME. Then you and Arne are in agreement. Leading zeroes to represent octal values weren't added to the C language fa= mily "without notice" at all, but with abundant notice. Arne is simply sayi= ng that one must learn the programming language if one wishes to use it. Th= is includes reading the documentation, wherein such notice is offered. Computer programming uses all sorts of terms and notations in ways differen= t from ordinary usage ("method", "call", "object", "integer", "%", "@"). It= is incumbent upon one learning a programming language to learn the specifi= c semantics and syntax, and complaints that it is unlike other languages (p= rogramming or otherwise) are feckless. --=20 Lew