Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!border1.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.bt.com!news.bt.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 12:13:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 18:13:42 +0100 From: lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> Organization: Trollbusters 3 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130308 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: arrays and variables References: <19un43xj77bua.vw45l4e2wshi.dlg@40tude.net> <1uednTu2Z5ByUcPMnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@bt.com> <78a7719f-3519-48a5-b36d-d8b7ddcafe7c@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <1padnYcK9sRayv3MnZ2dnUVZ8lSdnZ2d@bt.com> Lines: 79 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-o0SVM+MxQl/slTCa+oztmvUBLCA41E3X/CK1ON/tD3GWuL8dH2EDOvZ1fLXFI/P0ZDblHuIiyrTlgAb!c9wm8UzLCv1LR8qmGDld0rfm1si/64nZH9WKKHVT/Fzd6KoYmA9sMKIOqZGIxnuinCLzLXJ5rA4= X-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4577 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:23350 On 06/04/13 16:50, Robert Klemme wrote: > On 06.04.2013 17:25, lipska the kat wrote: >> On 06/04/13 14:20, Robert Klemme wrote: >>> On 06.04.2013 10:11, lipska the kat wrote: >>>> On 05/04/13 21:33, Lew wrote: >>>>> lipska the kat wrote: >>>>>> Stefan Ram wrote: >>>>>>> Arved Sandstrom writes: >>>>>>>> Stefan Ram wrote: >>>>>>>>> Arved Sandstrom writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> [snip] >>>>>> >>>>>>> What is C? We have pointers in Java, see the JLS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do we? I never knew that >>>>> >>>>> It's in the JLS, 4.3.1. >>>>> "An object is a class instance or an array. >>>>> >>>>> "The reference values (often just references) are pointers to these >>>>> objects, >>>>> and a special null reference, which refers to no object." >>>> >>>> This is a rhetorical usage of the word pointer and says nothing about >>>> the underlying mechanism used to implement references. >>> >>> Why "rhetorical"? >> >> The Java Language Specification is just that, a specification. >> Constraining an implementation to use *pointers is not within the >> purview of the specification, this is why I suggested that the usage is >> rhetorical. > > I don't think it is constraining implementations - it merely uses > "pointer" with a different meaning (suggestion: "something that points > to something") than the one you have in mind and which is used commonly > in CS. > >>> and why? There is nothing weaselish about quoting the JLS. >> >> I'd be very interested to see the line in the spec that says >> >> 'It [Java] only has pointers for reference types' >> >> Show me that and watch me eat my hat. > > Can we skip the "show" part and directly go to "eat my hat"? ;-) > >>> I think most people in software engineering actually use the terms the >>> way you have presented them here which is also reflected in the article >>> about pointers on wikipedia. That does not preclude other usages in >>> specific context so the heads up of Lew is actually in order to keep us >>> alert and use terms consciously. >> >> Of course it is, how could I possibly imagine that it could ever be >> otherwise. > > See? ;-) > >> Although ... actually, forget it, it really isn't that important, the >> sun is shining and I have seeds to sow, the lawn to cut and frogs to >> watch in the pond. > > I'll send our cat over. Here it's still uncomfortably cold (although > getting better) and she prefers to stay in an demonstrate her bad temper... Bloody cats, crapping in my veg beds, digging up my seedlings, hissing and howling and sitting by the pond pulling the pond weed out with their paws trying to get at the frogs. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :-) lipska -- Lipska the KatŠ: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun