Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.bt.com!news.bt.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:24:35 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:24:32 +0000 From: lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> Organization: Trollbusters 3 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120410 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code References: <171686ae-5239-4502-9ef3-65a68e8a1a1d@googlegroups.com> <514a53c7$0$32110$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <_JGdndJSO5_5ENHMnZ2dnUVZ7tWdnZ2d@bt.com> <-bCdnVkEhYOBE9DMnZ2dnUVZ7oCdnZ2d@bt.com> In-Reply-To: <-bCdnVkEhYOBE9DMnZ2dnUVZ7oCdnZ2d@bt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <-NKdnbFwYMuuVNDMnZ2dnUVZ8k2dnZ2d@bt.com> Lines: 44 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-LYoSJ8kYLBcw6R7TUmKmlqg1H4LyJQbP+P4k4EyhWFkttl/1WdAJ9ytgJWx3d6joTSaJdlxd0I+n5ip!NGOkKar4+4anUzPAX/zMl3jF+hvL45geEXWVPjwP8w/9KkSpKuWO3N9THc7JncLi31atAK1NUAI= X-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4029 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:23093 On 23/03/13 11:12, Chris Uppal wrote: > Joshua Cranmer ?? wrote: [snip] > > If by "information hiding" we mean that the language /polices/ a policy of /not > letting/ people see the innards of the objects, then, while that is a perfectly > reasonably language design decision, it is /only/ a language design decision. > It affects the flavour of the language, but does is irrelevant to whether the > language is suitable for OO programming. I can't say I've had any experience of these types of languages. I've not used them but apparently Smalltalk and Ruby only allow access to object state via methods but AFAIAA they are both considered OO by the language community at large. Do you have any examples of such languages that are not considered OO languages? > (By the way, a stronger argument, IMO, for /not/ regarding the C-based stuff as > "true OO" is that C lacks GC -- the longer I work in OO the more I move towards > seeing GC as /essential/ since without it the objects don't have full autonomy. > That's not part of the popular/consensus view of OO, though.) That's an interesting thought, not sure I understand what you mean by 'full autonomy' though. If you mean 'self-governance' then as I see it a fully self governing Object would be the ideal situation. With GC, Objects can't be self governing as they would be collected by a secondary entity, namely the Garbage Collector, they would have no say in the matter. A fully autonomous Object on the other hand would inform the runtime system that it was no longer required and return it's resources to the pool. Euthanasia versus suicide if you like. A fully autonomous Object wouldn't have any binding relationships, how could it, it wouldn't be autonomous. A fully autonomous Object could collaborate with others to perform tasks but would not be in any way dependent on others for it's existence, it would in effect be a independent entity, give it self awareness and we have attained computational nirvana or the living nightmare of truly intelligent machines. Or maybe you mean something different ... fascinating though though. lipska -- Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun