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Compiler

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  Compiler dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com - 2012-06-04 13:40 +0100
    Re: Compiler markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-04 06:23 -0700
    Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-04 07:47 -0700
      Re: Compiler dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com - 2012-06-05 20:06 +0100
        Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-05 17:33 -0700
          Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-05 18:29 -0700
            Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 09:46 -0700
        Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-05 17:43 -0700
          Re: Compiler dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com - 2012-06-06 16:53 +0100
            Re: Compiler Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-06-06 09:56 -0700
            Re: Compiler markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-06 12:27 -0700
            Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 10:06 -0700
          Re: Compiler "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-06-07 09:19 +0200
          Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 09:48 -0700
            Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 15:09 -0700
              Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 17:20 -0700
              Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 19:01 -0700
          Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 09:55 -0700
            Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 15:06 -0700
              Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-07 17:26 -0700
                Re: Compiler markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-07 17:55 -0700
                  Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-08 08:05 -0700
                    Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-08 12:27 -0700
                      Re: Compiler Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-08 21:01 -0700
                        Re: Compiler Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-09 21:30 -0700
    Re: Compiler Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-04 10:49 -0700

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#1819 — Compiler

Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
complicated - but need a compiler.

Can anyone suggest a suitable one?
-- 

Dystokia

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#1820

On 6/4/2012 5:40 AM, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com wrote:
> Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
> complicated - but need a compiler.
>
> Can anyone suggest a suitable one?


<http://netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html>

<http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk-7u4-downloads-1591156.html>

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#1821

On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:40:14 +0100, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
>complicated - but need a compiler.
>
>Can anyone suggest a suitable one?


see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html

Happily for you, they are free.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1824

On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 07:47:28 -0700, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:40:14 +0100, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com
>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>>Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
>>complicated - but need a compiler.
>>
>>Can anyone suggest a suitable one?"
>
>
>see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
>
>http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
>
>Happily for you, they are free.

In 'mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html'  it reads:

"Windows 7 64-bit, you will need both 64-bit JDK for the desktop and a
32-bit JRE for 32-bit browsers."

I am running Windows 7 so have down-loaded and installed
jdk-7u4-windows-x64.exe and jdk-7u4-windows-i586.exe.

In the 'Program Files' directory I have
Oracle\JavaFX 2.1 Runtime and ..\JavaFX 2.1 SDK

and in 'Program Files (x86)' I have
Java\jdk1.7.0_04 ..\jre6 and ..\jre7

I have no entry in startup or a desktop pointer icon - result STUCK.

Where do I go from here to get started please?

Alex.

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#1825

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 20:06:50 +0100, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Where do I go from here to get started please?

 See the notes is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
on polishing your install, e.g. putting javac.exe on the path or the
pseudopath.

Normally you want to work with an IDE.  It is the IDE's problem to
find and execute the compiler and run time for you.

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1827

Roedy Green wrote:
> dystokia wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
> >Where do I go from here to get started please?
> 
>  See the notes is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
> on polishing your install, e.g. putting javac.exe on the path or the
> pseudopath.
> 
> Normally you want to work with an IDE.  It is the IDE's problem to
> find and execute the compiler and run time for you.

This doesn't seem so helpful to a newbie.

Even using an IDE, one needs to know where one's JDK is in order 
to give the IDE that information. It is most certainly not the IDE's 
problem - it only knows what either the OS or the programmer tells 
it. If the OP doesn't have the right Java in the default location, the IDE 
won't find it, and if they want to use a different IDE, they have to enter 
that location into the IDE themselves. 

> See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html

Does that link answer the OP's question, i.e., how to locate their Java 
installation for the IDE?

Or for any other purpose?

OP: Uninstall the 32-bit Java. Uninstall and reinstall the 64-bit Java.
That should put the new Java in your path, but even if it doesn't, once 
you've located it you can put that JDK's "bin/" directory in your path 
yourself. Read the instructions on the Oracle website to get the details.

-- 
Lew

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#1832

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 18:29:21 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>Does that link answer the OP's question, i.e., how to locate their Java 
>installation for the IDE?

If he installed the JDK to knows where he put it.  

Just in case, I documented how that works in the other link I gave
him,
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html

IDE s could in theory,
1. look in the registry.
2. scan disks
3. look at JAVA_HOME

to find the JDK(s) They imagine that the users are experienced like
themselves so that they are not creating a hurdle. It might be better
if advertising execs looked as these things as hurdles to gaining Java
customers.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1826

(unknown) wrote:
>Roedy Green wrote:
> dystokia wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>> Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
>>> complicated - but need a compiler.
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest a suitable one?"
>>
>> see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
>>
>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
>>
>> Happily for you, they are free.
> 
> In 'mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html'  it reads:
> 
> "Windows 7 64-bit, you will need both 64-bit JDK for the desktop and a
> 32-bit JRE for 32-bit browsers."

What 32-bit browsers?

You shouldn't have any.

> I am running Windows 7 so have down-loaded and installed
> jdk-7u4-windows-x64.exe and jdk-7u4-windows-i586.exe.

Get rid of the 32-bit version.

> In the 'Program Files' directory I have
> Oracle\JavaFX 2.1 Runtime and ..\JavaFX 2.1 SDK

JavaFX is not Java.

> and in 'Program Files (x86)' I have
> Java\jdk1.7.0_04 ..\jre6 and ..\jre7

JDK is the developer toolkit. JRE are the runtime JVM invokers.

There is a JRE in the JDK.

Did you read the information on the *Oracle* website? 

Read that first, and understand it, before you start to rely on 
third-party sites like mindprod.

> I have no entry in startup or a desktop pointer icon - result STUCK.
> 
> Where do I go from here to get started please?

Uninstall the ones you installed. Re-install the 64-bit JDK.

You shouldn't need to do anything special with the PATH 
for a Windows installation.

The Java installation doesn't include anything in startup, and 
really, why should it? 

It doesn't create any desktop icons, either.

You can create an association in Windows between JAR files and 
the "javaw" JRE invoker, but for development you use command-line 
tools (like direct invocation of the "javac" command or Ant) or an IDE 
(Integrated Development Environment) like NetBeans or Eclipse.

As explained in Oracle's Java tutorials. You *are* studying the tutorials, 
aren't you?

RTFM.

-- 
Lew

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#1828

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote:

>(unknown) wrote:
>>Roedy Green wrote:
>> dystokia wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>>> Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
>>>> complicated - but need a compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone suggest a suitable one?"
>>>
>>> see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
>>>
>>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
>>>
>>> Happily for you, they are free.
>> 
>> In 'mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html'  it reads:
>> 
>> "Windows 7 64-bit, you will need both 64-bit JDK for the desktop and a
>> 32-bit JRE for 32-bit browsers."
>
>What 32-bit browsers?
>
>You shouldn't have any.
>
>> I am running Windows 7 so have down-loaded and installed
>> jdk-7u4-windows-x64.exe and jdk-7u4-windows-i586.exe.
>
>Get rid of the 32-bit version.
>
>> In the 'Program Files' directory I have
>> Oracle\JavaFX 2.1 Runtime and ..\JavaFX 2.1 SDK
>
>JavaFX is not Java.
>
>> and in 'Program Files (x86)' I have
>> Java\jdk1.7.0_04 ..\jre6 and ..\jre7
>
>JDK is the developer toolkit. JRE are the runtime JVM invokers.
>
>There is a JRE in the JDK.
>
>Did you read the information on the *Oracle* website? 
>
>Read that first, and understand it, before you start to rely on 
>third-party sites like mindprod.
>
>> I have no entry in startup or a desktop pointer icon - result STUCK.
>> 
>> Where do I go from here to get started please?
>
>Uninstall the ones you installed. Re-install the 64-bit JDK.
>
>You shouldn't need to do anything special with the PATH 
>for a Windows installation.
>
>The Java installation doesn't include anything in startup, and 
>really, why should it? 
>
>It doesn't create any desktop icons, either.
>
>You can create an association in Windows between JAR files and 
>the "javaw" JRE invoker, but for development you use command-line 
>tools (like direct invocation of the "javac" command or Ant) or an IDE 
>(Integrated Development Environment) like NetBeans or Eclipse.
>
>As explained in Oracle's Java tutorials. You *are* studying the tutorials, 
>aren't you?
>
>RTFM.

It appears that you have to be an semi-expert on Java before starting.
 
I did some programming in 'C' some time ago and recall that I began by
buying an IDE, introduction to 'C' book and a function reference.

I will persevere.

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#1829

On 6/6/2012 8:53 AM, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com wrote:
...
> I did some programming in 'C' some time ago and recall that I began by
> buying an IDE, introduction to 'C' book and a function reference.
>
> I will persevere.

It's really just the same for Java, except that you don't have to buy
anything unless you want to.

You can download a free IDE, such as Eclipse or Netbeans. The "function
reference" is the API documentation, available on-line or downloadable.
There are many on-line tutorials.

If you do buy a book, and the book recommends an IDE or other way of
compiling, it will be easiest to just do what it says. Otherwise, pick
*one* of the people who has made recommendations, and follow that
person's advice.

The problem is that there are several ways of doing things, and
different people are suggesting their preferred approach, but the
combination gets confusing.

Patricia

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#1830

On 6/6/2012 8:53 AM, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com wrote:
> I did some programming in 'C' some time ago and recall that I began by
> buying an IDE, introduction to 'C' book and a function reference.
>
> I will persevere.


If you followed the links I gave you, you would be there already.  Note 
the large "Download" button to the right of the pretty pictures of the IDE.

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#1835

On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 16:53:20 +0100, dystokia@stokeontrent.plus.com
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>It appears that you have to be an semi-expert on Java before starting.
> 
 Happily, unlike most other languages, things are reasonably
consistent. It suddenly makes sense and you wonder ever after what the
fuss was about. I wrote the Java glossary for people like you to help
you get started. I explain things in simplified form in informal
language, aiming at giving you the big picture before try to hang all
the myriad details on the framework.

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html

You might want to check out http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gotchas.html
which warns you of the things that are not as you might expect them.

Give yourself some simple projects (see
http://mindprod.com/project/projects.html for ideas). Then learn just
as much Java as you need for the task at hand. That will keep you
motivated. You don't want to overwhelm yourself trying to understand
everything at once.

I too came from C. It would have been much easier had I known no C at
all.  Java LOOKs superficially like C, but it works in a completely
different way under the hood, especially arrays and structs.
 
You have probably encountered people who consider it a criminal
offense to have failed to memorise the JLS  (see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jls.html)

They are just expressing their frustration not being able to explain
something to you as tersely as they could their clone.

I suggest http://mindprod.com/jgloss/classpath.html
as an important essay to muster. Classpath is the simplest thing in
the world, but explaining it ties everyone in knots.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1831

On 2012-06-06 00:43, Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> wrote:
> (unknown) wrote:
>>Roedy Green wrote:
>> dystokia wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>>> Here's an easy one.  I want to learn a little Java - nothing very
>>>> complicated - but need a compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone suggest a suitable one?"
>>>
>>> see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
>>>
>>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
>>>
>>> Happily for you, they are free.
>> 
>> In 'mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html'  it reads:
>> 
>> "Windows 7 64-bit, you will need both 64-bit JDK for the desktop and a
>> 32-bit JRE for 32-bit browsers."
>
> What 32-bit browsers?

Firefox? The official Windows build is 32-bit, AFAIK.

> You shouldn't have any.

Why not?

(Another question would be: Why would you want to run Java applets in a
browser, but since the OP is learning Java, he will probably come across
a few programming exercises involving applets)

	hp


-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | ignorance has no successful track record.
| |   | hjp@hjp.at         | 
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |  -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org

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#1833

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>What 32-bit browsers?
>
>You shouldn't have any.

IE has 64 bit version, but the rest are currently 32 bit.  Are you
suggesting IE is the only acceptable browser?
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1836

Roedy Green wrote:
> Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
> >
> >What 32-bit browsers?
> >
> >You shouldn't have any.
> 
> IE has 64 bit version, but the rest are currently 32 bit.  Are you
> suggesting IE is the only acceptable browser?

Are you suggesting that Chrome doesn't exist?

-- 
Lew

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#1838

On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:09:17 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>> >What 32-bit browsers?
>> >
>> >You shouldn't have any.
>> 
>> IE has 64 bit version, but the rest are currently 32 bit.  Are you
>> suggesting IE is the only acceptable browser?
>
>Are you suggesting that Chrome doesn't exist?

My Chrome is 32 bit according to Wassup
(http://mindprod.com/applet/wassup.html).  I will have to search and
see if there is a 64 bit version.  I don't ever recall being offered
the choice.

Chrome is hardest of the browsers to get Java working on.  So I would
not recommend it to a newbie for Java. It can be done, however. See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/googlechrome.html

Chrome's forte is looking at sites in various languages.  It
translates for you with nice integration with Google Translate and
lets you view translated or original.  I do a lot of that.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1841

On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:09:17 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>> >What 32-bit browsers?
>> >
>> >You shouldn't have any.
>> 
>> IE has 64 bit version, but the rest are currently 32 bit.  Are you
>> suggesting IE is the only acceptable browser?
>
>Are you suggesting that Chrome doesn't exist?

I have been trying to find this 64-bit Chrome.  I discovered
references to one for Linux, but not Windows . I tried installing
Chrome from scratch. It gave me a 32 bit version, without option.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1834

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>JavaFX is not Java.
 It is java in the sense it comes bundled with the JDK and that Oracle
named it to create the illusion it belongs to the Java family.

It is not Java in the same sense JavaScript is not Java.

-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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#1837

Roedy Green wrote:
> Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
> >
> >JavaFX is not Java.
>  It is java in the sense it comes bundled with the JDK and that Oracle
> named it to create the illusion it belongs to the Java family.

That is illegitimate. It is _with_ Java, but that doesn't mean that it 
_is_ Java.

You're pulling a Bill Clinton: "That depends on what your definition 
of 'is' is."

That fact is that JavaFX is not Java.

 
> It is not Java in the same sense JavaScript is not Java.

That is the sense in which they are different languages, 
i.e., not the same thing, which is the sense that makes sense.

-- 
Lew

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#1839

On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>That fact is that JavaFX is not Java.

Does it use the JVM under the covers? Is it just Java with a new
graphics library?

http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/architecture/jfxpub-architecture.htm

Claims to answer this question.

They talk about compatibility which implies the JVM is in there
somewhere, but they talk about it in a sleasy sort of way that might
just mean somebody could implement other languages for this engine.

So I think this is actually a lighter weight engine to compete with
Flash.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming.
~ Brian W. Kernighan 1942-01-01
.

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