Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 16:06:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:06:26 -0700 From: Patricia Shanahan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.2; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help Subject: Re: Enum basics References: <3bo8b7dd306f6pj50v2jk3t9704n1c0cjp@4ax.com> <21054701.30.1320463633638.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prog16> <6at9b7tui212h2jvfmdkka5antnsme1qjb@4ax.com> <16418512.328.1320509703473.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37> In-Reply-To: <16418512.328.1320509703473.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prap37> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Lines: 30 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.8.127.7 X-Trace: sv3-kOfee9+x5WAwgkYXPQRlAnG2dn2dbUqQe6ERv9IVxyMfsbBHe+/GwVfTthYVbN6/fpuObXd5x4E4YUK!fwsGU/jNtnGtiDL1u8YxFfcB6lLIArpshOhAlg0uTplQ+5L8+T8gxJv6p1/0YdquUrIo40+A9rvp!ib80HCfYniEVPFVY9g/8sD1ySyeerdikRZ7GGGRV3w== X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 2625 Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.help:1292 On 11/5/2011 9:15 AM, Lew wrote: ... > Contrary to the crap you put forward, Roedy, you don't have to be a > "language lawyer" to understand the cited passages, either. Just a > programmer. Lew's claim seems to be that any programmer can read the JLS. Roedy's claim seems to be that JLS reading is a specialized skill, distinct from, and in addition to, general programming skill. This is actually an interesting question. To me, the JLS seems the clearest description of Java I have found, and is my go-to document when I want to know anything about the core language, as distinct from the libraries. However, I had studied the theory of formal grammars and compiler construction, worked on compilers, and read several other language specifications before Java was invented. I may be a "language lawyer". I'm interpreting "a programmer" as someone who can program, without requiring any other skill. This question could easily become circular if inability to read the JLS were treated as evidence of not being a programmer. So, here is a question for people who can program in Java, or can program in at least one other language and are learning Java: Can you understand the JLS? Patricia