Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!69.16.185.21.MISMATCH!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:36:56 -0500 From: Patrick May Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help Subject: Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? References: Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:36:56 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4mZkpBZKDjsAw9ZnWlNIkdE2K6w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 37 X-Trace: sv3-Fkga5iwPZ25OAulLsIXinJmP/GOCY+7BWs9zzCdXqY95KgKI0Le797LpLmXMpIbQoC1NQR/0msqL3py!Fi4ybIraw5a/t+0J07t0Il3ICxsFdSkoGNlIGcbmRB6WPJmuj59bB+xEv4grEkmrubIBmKQ= X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3053 X-Received-Bytes: 3194 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.help:1942 Nigel Wade writes: > On 04/07/12 03:55, Patricia Shanahan wrote: >> On 7/3/2012 5:48 PM, Patrick May wrote: >> ... >>> I do think there is value in simplicity (and yes, I do see the >>> humor in calling Emacs simple). I also think there is value in >>> understanding what your tools are doing, and many IDEs make that >>> difficult or impossible. It is possible to deliver large enterprise >>> projects using a programmer's editor like Emacs and a shell window or >>> three, with occasional reference to documents in a web browser. >> >> Why is understanding what your tools are doing such a good thing? And is >> it feasible, even if desirable? > > Because if you don't, how are you going to clean up the mess that the > tools generate when they go wrong? Exactly this. There is a difference between encapsulating complexity and merely concealing it. Too many IDEs, in my experience, do the latter. This causes problems both when the tools are upgraded and when different tools are used on the same project. I've seen a lot of time wasted by developers getting their IDEs configured when those of us using Emacs or vi were solving the actual business problem. I've also seen too many junior developers who don't understand what their IDE is actually doing under the covers, which means they aren't a Java programmer, they're an Eclipse programmer. I'd rather work with people who understand how to use the command line, even if they choose to use an IDE. Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.softwarematters.org Large scale, mission-critical, distributed OO systems design and implementation. (C++, Java, Common Lisp, Jini, middleware, SOA)